That's kind of the jist. When this all first came up, it felt - weird, and cruel. Because at that stage I don't think things had solidified to the point that the chances of our being mistaken were quite so remote.

And, obviously, that's not the whole story - the reactions of any family outside or of people here who weren't so convinced or hadn't had time to process are important considerations. But so are the feelings of those with the doubts or those who don't want to see other people suffering over something that maybe isn't worth it. So I'm not entirely sure what the answer would have been.

But at the time, it did feel very off, like we were looking for something to be wrong, maybe, in a way that I'm probably not explaning at all adequately.

[last sentence edited a bit]

I've gone to several massage therapists who asked for a "person to contact"

Umm, an ambulance?

Sure, but would we belive the Fella without an obit and a death certificate? He could be anybody.

You know, Trudy. I don't think anybody here has a problem with your position. What they have a problem with is the way you present your position.

The only person who actually seems to be trying to cause strife here is you.

But at the time, it did feel very off, like we were looking for something to be wrong, maybe, in a way that I'm probably not explaning at all adequately.

I understand what you mean, brenda. It did feel too soon for me as well, but once it became clear that A) people had had suspicions in the past and B) kimi was not a known quantity as I had assumed (and B') no one had met Gus), I better understood why the question came up so quickly, especially given people's past experiences with pseuicide.

With apologies to Elizabeth Kubler-Ross, grieving happens so completely differently for everyone that it makes sense that everyone feels just as they do.

Whether it is grief over a mortal loss, over loss of innocence, over feeling manipulated, over just. not. knowing. it's going to be different for each of us.

The temptation is to take other people's reactions personally, because the experience is, well...personal. And while I'm no fan of snide...mostly for its supreme uselessness as a tool for understanding...I get strong emotion...especially fear and anger...in a case like this (whatever it may be).

When the temptation gets too strong, I try to revert to that 'what we learned in kindergarten' school of thought. Words can't really hurt me, and even if they do, the upset will pass.

eta: slang gone bad: What I meant to say is that I understand strong emotion being a part of this discussion, not that I get angry or fearful. Perhaps an unecessary distinction, but none the less.

It seems as though you may sort of mean it would have been better to let people mourn longer, before bringing up the doubts.

I was wondering about this, too. Would people really have wanted to mourn a pseudicide for a longer amount of time before finding out that there's a good chance there was no death?

I will say this about coming forth with my suspicions about Gus's death: when it was first announced, I was shocked and upset. I know others were also (which goes without saying). *Because* others were upset, I would NOT have come forth with my suspicions if I didn't think they were valid. Because to toss around accusations of pseudicide based on nothing more than a rumor or one tiny inconsistency would have caused just as much -- if not more -- upset than hearing that Gus died.

I didn't voice my suspicions without a great deal of thought, and a great deal of consideration for the community. And one of the things I considered was the question I raised at the beginning of this post: would it have been *better* if people had been able to mourn longer, expend more energy and emotions, before finding out that maybe there was no one to mourn?

Not just that, Tep. I googled for info on Gus immediately after hearing. I missed him and was hoping to read more about him, maybe find out what charity to give to. When I found nothing, I felt confused and suspicious and alone in those feelings. Finding out I wasn't the only one was a great relief.

I don't remember who it was (cindy, maybe?), but i'd like to thank the person who had the courage to come forward. While there is perhaps legitimacy to the thought that we jumped on the pseuicide idea too quickly, I don't think that the quickness would have happened if there weren't many people with the same concerns.

would it have been *better* if people had been able to mourn longer, expend more energy and emotions, before finding out that maybe there was no one to mourn?

Probably yes for some people and no for others, which sucks, because there's no way to make everything right for everyone.

When I found out offline on New Years' day that other people had doubts, I was like, "you too?!" but later it hit me that most of us probably googled the name immediately, and lack of google trail is unsettling. So I'd guess that's why it seemed like we kind of quickly concluded that Gus may not be who he said he was. And people had other reasons, of course; just for me, a tone to kimi's post that struck me as off, for others, maybe an uncomfortable reminder of other pseudicides*.

* It's cute and all but "pseu" is not a prefix.

ETA: and yeah, I immediately responded to Cindy's post laying out her doubts because I know what it's like to post something controversial and sit for hours waiting to see what the community says. It sucks, and I thought she'd be immediately jumped on.

For me, as it happened over the holiday weekend, I got approximately 2 minutes to be mournful. I logged on yesterday and there 200+ messages in this thread, it was the first place I went to. I read of his passing and two minutes later, the doubts came up. For me, it was very upsetting. I would have liked a little more time.

I don't know that this was the place to express doubts. I don't know where a good place to express those would have been. I don't know if expressing those doubts was right or not. I don't know much, but I know I love you.