This my first attempt at white-fonting: I'll delete if it doesn't work out.
I took Elrond's speech to Arragorn about Arwen quite differently than what I've read here. To me, his reference to her dying was that she had chosen to become mortal-which to an immortal IS dying, even if the death is a long way off. And the reference to her fate being tied to the fate of the ring I took simply as meaning since she wasn't leaving Middle Earth with the elves but staying behind as a mortal, if the Ring wasn't destroyed, she, like every enemy of Sauron, was doomed.
Hope that fonting worked.
but IIRC the contempt came from the prevalence of a specific kind of negative review. Namely, the 'I don't get it, so there must be nothing to get' kind which, as attitudes go is a pretty reprehensible one. Maybe it just comes down to how much or little of that sort of thing a given person perceives, and how much it rankles.
Just so. I find it very prevelant-and it rankles a good deal.
ted, I agree with your white font, but am too out of it to expound on it. I interpreted those scenes the same way that you did. Of course, I'd already read the conversation here on those scenes before I saw the film. I don't know how I would have viewed it, if I'd gone in blind.
Word, Cindy. I think I enjoyed it more than you, but I do need to see it more to come to a real conclusion.
The funny thing is, I did really enjoy it. I was engaged the whole time. I never got bored. I never watched the clock.
As for the meara effect -- yes, but inevitable, I thought.
Yes, absolutely. It's an enormous text with so much happening to so many, I don't know how else it could have been done. My guess is I'll enjoy it more, the more I watch it, too.
I think the whole LotR saga is the kind of piece that cries out to be a longer mini-series--maybe 15 or 20 hours, but you'd never get the gorgeous things that the budget of a Christmas release blockbuster gives you. And I don't know that I'd trade that for story. I don't know anything, except that I want to see RotK, again.
By the end, I was just so grateful that PJ pulled it off. No, he didn't do it the way I'd have nagged him to, but he did it well, with idiosyncrasies, differing interpretations, and whatever real-world limitations we never were made aware of.
He brought passion and detail to an incredibly difficult job, and I love him (and most of his cast and crew) dearly for doing so.
Yes. This. I even love Arwen--Liv's Arwen.
I'm separating plot from dialogue
Mostly plot bugged me. Dialogue does often bug me in these movies, where the epic language was made modern and idiomatic, but for my Arwen issues it's the plot.
However, the dialogue supports the general board interpretation, ted, of your whitefont thought. Arwen lays on her couch, gasping, no lipstick, and breathes "I wish I could have seen him one last time." That, combined with Elrond's increased sorrow, the dimming of the Evenstar jewel, and the dream symbolism of it shattering, gives me the read that she's dying NOW. When the scene started, I too flashed on Anya's "I'm dying! I only have 40 or 50 years left!" but by it's completion I'm convinced they meant her death was imminent.
He brought passion and detail to an incredibly difficult job, and I love him (and most of his cast and crew) dearly for doing so.
Yes yes yes. Even with my writing gripes, I still give it an "A." Whenever I go back and look at the books, I realize how much they got right. Richard Taylor is a god.
Having been to Trilogy Tuesday, the impression on me was a jolt from the familiar (I've seen FOTR and TTT a lot) to the brand new. The pacing seemed fine then. Second viewing of ROTK, the pacing bugged the crap out of me.
Ooof. I saw it last night, and of course I had to read this whole thread before posting.
First, two things that are non-RotK-specific: which scene in FotR was Weathertop? And, perhaps oddly, TTT was my favorite of the 3.
Now then.
Please don't kill me.
I saw the movie with Ellen S. last night, and we were both rather underwhelmed by it (but didn't want to confess that at first, because each of us thought the other thought it was the Best. Film. Evah).
Understand, I've never read the books, so there were parts where I was confused about things that might have been completely understandable to people who had read the books. However.
Since I haven't read the books, I went in expecting
Frodo to die on Mt. Doom, and I brought tons of Kleenex for the ensuing weepfest. Except he didn't die. I was honestly *shocked* that Frodo lived to return to the Shire.
Actually, I didn't cry at all, which makes me feel heartless. I teared up a little at a few points --
Gandalfe describing death to Pippen; Sam carrying Frodo up Mt. Doom; Gondor bowing to the hobbitses.
But I didn't actually cry.
The film felt choppy to me, like there were too many storylines for the time allotted. And that didn't occur in the first 2 movies for me. And some of the scenes looked like they were filmed in front of a bluescreen, which maybe some were, but again, I was never struck by that in the first 2.
Having never read the books, the
giant Eagles ex Machina
seemed like a huge asspull to me. Ellen explained to me that that was one of Gandalfe's powers, but I was really taken out of the scene because it seemed so asspull-y.
I hated
Sam marrying Rosie, but that's only because he's supposed to marry *me!*
(Little levity there, lest ye all think I'm nothing but a hater.)
I dislike Arwen intensely. I wanted to like her, but compared to Eowyn, I had no use for her whatsoever.
Basically, the reason I was underwhelmed was that everything I expected to happen did happen (with the exception of
Frodo surviving).
Battles, forces of darkness, armies fighting in the face of great odds, Frodo undergoes yet more emotional scarring, Sam kicks ass in all ways, and
the good guys win.
What was so compelling to me about the first 2 movies is that I had no idea what was going to happen, beyond vague long-term stuff, like Frodo won't die in FotR because he has to get all the way to Mt. Doom in RotK. But beyond that really long-term stuff, I had no clue what to expect.
RotK, however, gave me exactly what I expected. And I understand that, for all the people who loved it, they knew what was going to happen because they had read the books, and (I assume) much of what they went in to see was just watching it unfold. Watching the struggle against great odds play out, how the characters rose to the occasion, etc. More of the How, rather than the What.
And I think I got caught up in the What, rather than the How.
Now that I have everyone ready to beat me with blunt instruments for my blaspheming, there was a lot that I liked about RotK.
Pippen! After the movie, Ellen and I dissected it, and we totally disagreed on the characters we loved. She was irritated by both Pippen and Sam, and was glad when
Frodo told Sam to go home.
Pippen kicked ass. Almost everything he did had me internally exclaiming "Oh, Pippen!" Which is shorthand for "Dude, you just blew me away again with what you did." And, as everyone has said, Billy Boyd can sing!
Sam. Oh, my. Sam. For me, the trilogy has ended up being about Sam. He's the Xander (or, rather, given when the books were written, Xander is the Sam). I don't really have words for my Samlove. He even
carried the Ring.
He kicked such ass. I have no words. Sean Astin can convey so many emotions with just one glance. I am in awe.
And Frodo. Despite the fact that
I expected him to die and was disappointed on that front,
I was just overwhelmed by Frodo. The fact that he continued to carry the burden of the Ring, how utterly the Ring consumed him and destroyed him (to the point where
he couldn't remember food, which really is a moment that could have made me cry).
And Elijah Wood, like Sean Astin, conveys so much with just a glance. The two of them almost needed no dialogue.
The relationship between Sam and Frodo. Beautiful. Just utterly beautiful. I don't need to slash them sexually, because their love is so much deeper and wider that sex doesn't even seem relevant.
Eowyn. Dude. Don't fuck with Eowyn. Possibly my favorite line of the movie (which I understand was modernized and wasn't Tolkien's original) was her
"I am no man!" prior to skewering Grand Wizard of the Nazguls. Plus, she beheaded the creepy Nazgul flying pterodactyl!
Eowyn, Eowyn. You are so much more than that silly elf-girl.
Elrond broke my heart by
finally acquiescing to Arwen's wish.
The cinematography of the vast sweeping shots was breathtaking. The tiny details included everywhere -- Minas Tirith, for instance -- just made the trilogy so rich.
And, despite the fact that
it bugged me that Frodo didn't die,
the end, when he
kissed Sam and got on the boat, was lovely. He finally looked happy.
I may see it again, because maybe I just wasn't in the right emotional place to be moved by the film. We'll see.
Oh, and I've been over-Buffied, because when
Mordor began to collapse into a great sinkhole,
all I could think was
"It's Sunnydale!!!"
