Bah. Gandalf does have the palantir when they leave for Minas Tirith. Why did PJ omit all allusions to it? Yeah, he's hallucinating in the EE, but toss in a palantir, and he looks so much more fallen than addled.

Aragorn's palantir definitely comes from Gandalf--the material around it that we see in the Throne Room is the same as the material Gandalf had around it at Edoras . Also, Faramir's lieutenant, Mardil, was killed in exactly the same way in the theatrical release.

Cool info I learned from the commentaries: Gothmog and the Witchking were both played by Lawrence Makaore, but the voices were from Andy Serkis for the Witchking, and Craig Parker (better known as Haldir) for Gothmog.

Not only did Lawrence Makaore play both Gothmog and the Witchking, but, ita, he *was* Lurtz. So he's there, just in a different guise. In one of the commentaries, when he's told he's going to be a Mordor orc, he said, "But they're runty guys! How am I going to play one of those weasly Mordor orcs!"

As for Gothmog's looks, apparently the Weta folks were designing up various faces and put a few lumps on Gothmog. Peter comes through, pauses and says, "He needs more lumps," grabs some latex and sticks it on in various places. "Something like that." So the Weta people, in an effort to find an effect that even Peter will declare over-the-top, just pile on the latex. Peter comes in later, studies it, says, "Just a bit more and he's right."

I was so sure Gothmog was modeled on some other influence, and couldn't put my finger on it. I think it was DX who suggested the Elephant Man, which is the closest Team Jackson ever came to a reference.

Theoden yelling "Death!" as the Rohirrim charge into battle is still an automatic crypoint for me.

I begrudge him the line, because it was originally Eomer's (and in a completely different context). Good speech before that, though; 11th C. apocalyptic poetry ages well!

Oh yeah, the speech leading up to that cry is a key element of the whole thing. (I don't remember Eomer being the one to cry "Death!"--what part is that in?) My other main automatic crypoint (well, besides the entire last half-hour or so, which I can't even pick a moment from) is the scene in which Gandalf tells Pippin about death and the Undying Land. Shit, I'm tearing up now just thinking about it. I don't believe in Heaven, or any kind of afterlife, really, but in that moment, I believe wholeheartedly.

(I don't remember Eomer being the one to cry "Death!"--what part is that in?)

After he sees Theoden die and recognizes Eowyn lying seemingly dead on the battlefield.

ita, he *was* Lurtz.

I know that -- I'm head of the Lurtz fan club -- my issue is that Gothmog et al have no magnetism, and Lurtz reeked of it.

I diagnosed Gothmog as suffering from neurofibromatosis after my first in-theatre viewing. And sure enough, PJ made a John Merrick reference in the EE extras.

I'm still thinking. I'm pretty sure I agree with ita on almost all of her points. One moment I treasure was the "Smeagol LIED!" admission. I'll have to watch it several times before I really have anything coherent to say.

ita, what, no love for the trebuchet missile sidestep & spit combo ? I thought Gothmog rocked. Maybe not as much as Lurtz, but still, large with the orcish rocking.

In the books, Gandalf leaves the Orthanc Palantir with Aragorn. I think that by the time Aragorn uses the palantir in the EE it could have been either the Orthanc or Minas Tirith stones, since Denethor didn't die with the Minas Tirith one in his hands.

In the theatrical Gothmog just disappears.

I think that the House of Healing scene covers what happened immediately after the battle AND stuff that happens maybe the next day? ( You know when Eowyn is able to get up and walk and so is Faramir. )

I re-watched the trilogy EE yesterday. I really enjoyed the contrast between Eowyn's dream of the Fall of Numenor -- despair, end of things and Arwen's Vision - - hope, the continuance of life.

Also, why didn't I realize before how they parallelled Smeagol's transformation into Gollum and his loss of memory/enjoyment of ordinary things at the beginning of RotK with Frodo's at the end? Nor the paralleling between Aragorn's fight with the troll and Frodo's fight with Gollum? And I must say that (having seen some more of the extras, I am so glad that they did not go with the concept of Aragorn fighting a phyiscal manifestation of Sauron or that idea that Sauron can still appear in a beautiful form -- because I believe that somewhere -- possibly in the appendices -- it says that after the Fall of Numenor (I think) he could NEVER appear in a beautiful form again. (Sauron, that is.)