When you look back at this, in the three seconds it'll take you to turn to dust, I think you'll find the mistake was touching my stuff.

Buffy ,'Lessons'


LotR - The Return of the King: "We named the *dog* 'Strider'".  

Frodo: Please, what does it always mean, this... this "Aragorn"? Elrond: That's his name. Aragorn, son of Arathorn. Aragorn: I like "Strider." Elrond: We named the *dog* "Strider".

A discussion of Lord of the Rings - The Return of the King. If you're a pervy hobbit fancier, this is the place for you.


Connie Neil - Aug 16, 2004 8:13:56 am PDT #2902 of 3902
brillig

What is Merry's thought when he sees her, "She should not die, so alone, so ..." gah, what is it! The death itself wasn't the big deal, but the way of the death.


Katie M - Aug 16, 2004 8:44:35 am PDT #2903 of 3902
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

I don't think they could use "smite" there.

And it was "smite" that I missed the most. It doesn't sound right without "smite."

I really missed the Scouring as a way to point up the changes Frodo underwent; I get why it wasn't there, and honestly by that point in the movie if I'd had to see one more battle scene I would've screamed, but I thought it made Frodo's choice to go to the Havens harder to buy.

Playing off of the thing about costumes/sets/etc., one of the things I love best about the movies is how respectful they are of fantasy. I never got the feeling that anyone was snicking up their sleeve about it, you know? The creators took the story seriously.


Dana - Aug 16, 2004 1:05:46 pm PDT #2904 of 3902
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

Question: in the books, Aragorn and Arwen's relationship is almost exclusively in the appendices, right?


sumi - Aug 16, 2004 1:07:12 pm PDT #2905 of 3902
Art Crawl!!!

Yes. And they plighted their troth long long ago and Aragorn wasn't conflicted about possibly becoming the king.


Dana - Aug 16, 2004 1:09:28 pm PDT #2906 of 3902
I'm terrifically busy with my ennui.

Hee. Thanks.

Edit: Wait, I edit. Am I right in remembering that you don't even find out about their relationship until very late in the third book?

Also, Boromir much hotter in the movies. That's not going in my paper, but I wanted to say it.


Katie M - Aug 16, 2004 1:13:06 pm PDT #2907 of 3902
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

Right. They have a scene where Frodo sees them talking in Rivendell, Arwen sends him the banner, there's an Arwen-reference the scene with Aragorn and Gandalf finding the tree, they get married, and there's the scene where Arwen gives Frodo her necklace. Oh, and Aragorn's scene on Cerin Amroth, but I can't remember if it's even made clear in the main story that that's about Arwen.


Kathy A - Aug 16, 2004 1:13:27 pm PDT #2908 of 3902
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

There are hints to the Aragorn/Arwen relationship at Rivendell in FotR, and again at Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, also in FotR, but that's it until she shows up for the wedding in RotK.


libkitty - Aug 16, 2004 2:26:29 pm PDT #2909 of 3902
Embrace the idea that we are the leaders we've been looking for. Grace Lee Boggs

Boromir much hotter in the movies. That's not going in my paper, but I wanted to say it.

An important distinction. Not only hotter, but more real, and more likeable. I mean, in his death scene, when he says how he would have followed Aragorn to the ends of the earth (or some such), I think he even surpassed Aragorn for a few seconds, and ignited my adoration of Sean Bean. Am now working through all of the Sharpes series. And even in Troy, Bean was one of the few who didn't suck.


Jeff Mejia - Aug 16, 2004 2:57:02 pm PDT #2910 of 3902
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

Worst: the pessimistic culture (specifically embodied in Eowyn) of the Rohirrim. By rewriting it to make the Eowyn/Theoden relationship receive a resolution, the film reduced the philosophy-of-despair to a couple of excellent references to poetry, and a lot of psychotherapy. Whereas, Tolkien was showcasing a decidedly foreign mindset, giving it its foreign, exciting, occasionally-off-putting glory. The movie version felt about three degrees away from Oprah, all mooshy and modern; the book version was raw and strange and unpleasant and in some ways completely unresolveable.

I think part of that it because Tolkien was so steeped in Anglo-Saxon culture (the basis for the Rohirrim) that he understood that mindset (and tried to build it as a particularly "English" mythology). I'm sure his study and undestanding of the Finnish sagas helped in that direction. I'm not sure that the feeling can be translated well in a big-budget movie.

What is Merry's thought when he sees her, "She should not die, so alone, so ..." gah, what is it! The death itself wasn't the big deal, but the way of the death.

Here's the passage:

Eowyn it was, and Dernhelm also. For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope. Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.

I think one of the things I regret that the movie couldn't translate was the coming of the Riders of Rohan, and the reversal of the Great Gloom from Mordor. If they could have played up the gloom, I think Sauron would have seemed even more powerful, and having the reversal would have played up the slight sense of divine intervention that Tolkien seeded throughout his story.


Connie Neil - Aug 16, 2004 2:59:09 pm PDT #2911 of 3902
brillig

In the movie, Saruman seemed more of a threat than Sauron. It's hard to be scared of the Flaming Yoni.