Right. They have a scene where Frodo sees them talking in Rivendell, Arwen sends him the banner, there's an Arwen-reference the scene with Aragorn and Gandalf finding the tree, they get married, and there's the scene where Arwen gives Frodo her necklace. Oh, and Aragorn's scene on Cerin Amroth, but I can't remember if it's even made clear in the main story that that's about Arwen.

There are hints to the Aragorn/Arwen relationship at Rivendell in FotR, and again at Cerin Amroth in Lothlorien, also in FotR, but that's it until she shows up for the wedding in RotK.

Boromir much hotter in the movies. That's not going in my paper, but I wanted to say it.

An important distinction. Not only hotter, but more real, and more likeable. I mean, in his death scene, when he says how he would have followed Aragorn to the ends of the earth (or some such), I think he even surpassed Aragorn for a few seconds, and ignited my adoration of Sean Bean. Am now working through all of the Sharpes series. And even in Troy, Bean was one of the few who didn't suck.

Worst: the pessimistic culture (specifically embodied in Eowyn) of the Rohirrim. By rewriting it to make the Eowyn/Theoden relationship receive a resolution, the film reduced the philosophy-of-despair to a couple of excellent references to poetry, and a lot of psychotherapy. Whereas, Tolkien was showcasing a decidedly foreign mindset, giving it its foreign, exciting, occasionally-off-putting glory. The movie version felt about three degrees away from Oprah, all mooshy and modern; the book version was raw and strange and unpleasant and in some ways completely unresolveable.

I think part of that it because Tolkien was so steeped in Anglo-Saxon culture (the basis for the Rohirrim) that he understood that mindset (and tried to build it as a particularly "English" mythology). I'm sure his study and undestanding of the Finnish sagas helped in that direction. I'm not sure that the feeling can be translated well in a big-budget movie.

What is Merry's thought when he sees her, "She should not die, so alone, so ..." gah, what is it! The death itself wasn't the big deal, but the way of the death.

Here's the passage:

Eowyn it was, and Dernhelm also. For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope. Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate! At least she should not die alone, unaided.

I think one of the things I regret that the movie couldn't translate was the coming of the Riders of Rohan, and the reversal of the Great Gloom from Mordor. If they could have played up the gloom, I think Sauron would have seemed even more powerful, and having the reversal would have played up the slight sense of divine intervention that Tolkien seeded throughout his story.

In the movie, Saruman seemed more of a threat than Sauron. It's hard to be scared of the Flaming Yoni.

If anyone cares to hark back to the first LotR thread, they will find my posts loudly lamenting the fact that Aragorn was sadly miscast, that Bean was clearly the better actor, better voice, yadda yadda. Didn't like Viggo ("Is Viggo!") at all until Boromir's death scene. But I really came to appreciate Aragorn, Viggo's Aragorn, at the beginning of TTT, tracking the Uruks, meeting the banished Rohirrim, arriving at Edoras. I began to see some substance beneath the subtlety. And by the scene where they were arming man and boy at Helms Deep, I was an Aragorn fan.

But movie FotR? Boromir was the guy.

An important distinction. Not only hotter, but more real, and more likeable.

Yeah, I sympathize much more with him this read, since I'm now bringing Bean's performance to it.

Am now working through all of the Sharpes series. And even in Troy, Bean was one of the few who didn't suck.

I'm not sure I've seen him give a bad performance. He's good in Equilibrium, which sucks donkey rocks, he's good in Troy, he's good in that Bond movie, and he's faboo in Sharpe. Plus, tight pants.

Ooo, Dana. I don't think it's a bad performance, but he's definitely the man you love to hate in Essex Boys. I was glad when that one was over.

Dana -- have you seen ads for National Treasure?

Sean Bean gets to be the best thing in that too.

(Well, I assume he is -- it looks like a big silly movie.)

I saw a preview. And thought, "Well, shit, I have to see this." I always liked him, but the combination of Boromir and Sharpe turned me into a crazed fan.