Well, Tolkien had a lot of reconcilling to do regarding all of those strong women in Norse sagas that he read with the non-existence of women (besides his mother, and she died young) in his world after being raised by a Catholic priest and then going into the nearly all-male academic world.

His women, both weak and strong are idealizations. I simply don't think he was capable of ever going beyond that.

::sigh:: I know.

amych: amyth leaned over and said to her neighbor at one point, Here come the suspicious brown-skinned people.

WROD on the place holder for all women and

What, so if she didn't know that they were going to

As my mother likes to say when I get going, "(smonster) took this class in Gender Issues and she's never gotten over it."

Okay, now we're getting to the anti-Arwen vibe that I object to. I agree, the schmoop factor does diminish it a little for me, and I understand the objection to the traditional role, but to be fair to JJRT and PJ, Eowyn is presented as a different path. But I saw the above issue (snerk) this way:

The child is symbolic of the way mortals achieve immortality. I don't get a sense of "Ooh, I haven't had any baybees!" from that sequence, but the child reminds her of the real mortal future with consequences with Aragorn, the child they will have together, the knitting together of their fates in the human world which is to come. All of that is tied into the imagery of the child that crystallizes her decision to turn away from the undying lands and follow her heart. It isn't an explicit snub at those of us who can't or won't have children in their lives. Even to us, children are still the future, whether we like it or not. :)

Liv is pretty and young and may have helped them sell the movie, and yes, she was probably too young and pretty and softly-lit. As I have said above, I don't think PJ could have offered me a convincing Arwen in this life, but who knows what film making technology will bring. I may yet live to see her. I wouldn't have thought twenty years ago that what I saw yesterday would ever have been possible. I have lived in terror of LotR being brought to the screen for many years.

Mooom!!! JS is mellowing my harsh!!! AND earworming me with schmoopy Whitney Houston!

t /joke indicating i have neither time nor inclination to discuss further right now

/joke indicating i have neither time nor inclination to discuss further right now

Hee. Fair enough. I mean, discussing gender politics in Lord of the Rings can be tiresome enough in a pleasant room, with nice alcohol to hand. Which I'd be glad to do some time.

I'm really still in the glow of the movie (did I mention I see it again tomorrow?) and don't much want to get into that stuff either. I did want to at least throw it on the table. JRRT may be an old dead white guy and definitely a product of his times. He's still a treasure.

Edited: too many buts for my literary aesthetic.

JRRT may be an old dead white guy and definitely a product of his times. He's still a treasure.

WROD.

t totally shallow

I just read that RotK now has the one day box office record with $34 million (beating the previous record holder - Phantom Menace by $6 million - take that Lucas!). And - still a 98% rating at rotten tomatoes with 142 reviews in the mix.

t /totally shallow

One day box office record -- on a Wednesday. Heh!

I just listened to the Annie Lennox track for the first time.

I'm off to my tomb.

God, that was depressing.

Because I don't trust one-source reporting, I did some double checking.

The previous one day record holder was actually the first Harry Potter movie with $32.9 million and that record was set on its second day (a Saturday).

eta:

Awww crap. Sorry and nevermind. (I really hate it when I do this.)

"Matrix Reloaded," the second round in brothers Andy and Larry Wachowski's sci-fi trilogy, grossed a record 42.5 million dollars in its nationwide premier Thursday, CBS Marketwatch Report said Friday. The film's gross was the biggest ever in the United States on the day of its release, AOL Time Warner president Richard Parsons told the company's annual stockholders' meeting in Landsdowne, Virginia, on Friday. The previous record belonged to the film "Spiderman," which grossed 39.4 million on the day of its release last year.