And we live to fight another day.

Mal ,'Objects In Space'


We're Literary 2: To Read Makes Our Speaking English Good  

There's more to life than watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No. Really, there is! Honestly! Here's a place for Buffistas to come and discuss what it is they're reading, their favorite authors and poets. "Geez. Crack a book sometime."


Calli - Nov 05, 2004 7:06:10 am PST #6251 of 10002
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

The whole thing seems very complex, which is part of why I'm trying to research it.

I'd be interested in both people who cross-dress for fun and those who have the secrecy and shame aspect, but not those who live their lives as the opposite sex. For example, a man who spends the majority of his time as a culturally-recognized male, and identifies as male, with the clothes and the hair and so on. But who also has a life, secret or not, where he cross dresses in public. Maybe only at drag bars, but still in a public space. Or is this a rare phenomenon in the cross-dressing community? This would also be a useful thing to know. I appreciate your trying to help, and I'm sorry if my question's vague or ill-informed.


§ ita § - Nov 05, 2004 7:19:29 am PST #6252 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

meara reads this thread, right? I'm sure she'll be a fount of information.


Daisy Jane - Nov 05, 2004 7:24:11 am PST #6253 of 10002
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

I wonder if most people don't have a little cross-dressing or attraction to it in them. I'm thinking of men who like women in their shirts, women who like men in frilly pirate shirts and/or eyeliner. Women who love a sexy pantsuit and a fedora.


Betsy HP - Nov 05, 2004 7:56:07 am PST #6254 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

You're thinking blue-state again, Heather.


Jesse - Nov 05, 2004 7:57:58 am PST #6255 of 10002
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Wasn't that part of Obama's speech? "We coach Little League in the blue states, and love crossdressing in the red states...."


Topic!Cindy - Nov 05, 2004 7:59:53 am PST #6256 of 10002
What is even happening?

Nobody remembers the purple states.


Daisy Jane - Nov 05, 2004 8:05:07 am PST #6257 of 10002
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

You're thinking blue-state again, Heather.

It's because I live in a nearly blue county. I blame Oak Lawn.


Betsy HP - Nov 05, 2004 8:05:59 am PST #6258 of 10002
If I only had a brain...

You know, geographically speaking, it's really tricky for all the cities to secede and form a new country.


Katie M - Nov 05, 2004 8:08:50 am PST #6259 of 10002
I was charmed (albeit somewhat perplexed) by the fannish sensibility of many of the music choices -- it's like the director was trying to vid Canada. --loligo on the Olympic Opening Ceremonies

You know, geographically speaking, it's really tricky for all the cities to secede and form a new country.

Viva Berlin!


Calli - Nov 05, 2004 8:15:54 am PST #6260 of 10002
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

I wonder if most people don't have a little cross-dressing or attraction to it in them.

Yeah, I've been thinking about this. When does wearing trousers, an Oxford shirt, and loafers become cross-dressing for women? When she adds a fedora? A mustache? And women have much more room to play with gender-identified clothing -- I'm thinking of M. Dietrich in the tux, Annie Hall, etc. The 80s glam thing (and some of the Goth styles) gave a bit of room for men to play, with the feather boas, ruffled shirts, eye-liner and so on. But I think women can go further.

At what point does it really become cross-dressing? I don't consider a guy in a kilt to be cross-dressing, probably because of all the cultural baggage. Does there have to be makeup? An actual attempt to pass as the opposite gender? I'm sitting here in khaki jeans, a t-shirt, and a corduroy shirt over it, with unisex-birkies on my feet. What saves this from being cross-dressing? The fact that women in this culture brought jeans into our wardrobe in the 60s? The fact that the t-shirt is bright pink or the way my breasts stick out under it?