Um, well, we listened to aggressively cheerful music sung by people chosen for their ability to dance. Then we ate cookie dough, and talked about boys.

Giles ,'Get It Done'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Nutty - Aug 07, 2003 6:03:02 am PDT #452 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

That's sort of a false parallel, don't you think UTTAD? Of course they hadn't introduced Willow being a lesbian. She wasn't one.

She was, however, coded as a nerd from the word "Sears", just as Xander was coded as a loser (and also in the very first episode). We knew what to expect out of Cordelia, and we knew what kind of person Giles was. At the end of WTTH/Harvest, Angel was the only character we didn't have a good handle on, although already we knew he was Mr. Billowy Coat King Of Pain. And when did we get introduced to him in totality? Episode Number Six.

When you're creating a completely fictional world, it's hard work to establish an understanding with your audience -- especially if they run counter to standard expectations. If companions are to make sense as a concept, i.e. be something the audience understands (and not in a wildly-different-interpretations way), then it behooves the writers to introduce that concept, bolster it, make it solid. And then two seasons later they can turn it on its head; but not till the audience is well versed in the expectations that surround the concept.

(It's like grammar: breaking the rules when you know them is arty; breaking the rules when you don't know them is artless.)


UTTAD - Aug 07, 2003 6:11:45 am PDT #453 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

Yeah, but I'm happy in my mind on where Companions stand, so I don't have a problem with them. I'm happy to accept things at face value in the Fireflyverse. That's where I gain my entertainment from. You obviously delve deeper, that's where you get your entertainment from, maybe entertainment isn't the right word, but you know what I mean.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 07, 2003 8:23:19 am PDT #454 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Plus, Buffy, while certain rules needed to be established, was set in the present day, modern American world with the same cultural signposts as the "real" world.

I tend to give a lot more leeway when a whole different society (or societies, as it seems to be) is being established. They just didn't have the time to establish everything - note how the Chinese aspect of the Fly-verse has never been clarified, either.


Micole - Aug 07, 2003 8:29:31 am PDT #455 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

13 episodes into Buffy. No vampAngel, no gayWillow, no Oz, no Anya, no Spike, no Tara, no Faith, no definite views on direct/indirect sunlight, no hint where Slayer powers came from, no sense of how easy/difficult magic was to use, etc.

vampAngel was episode six, actually, and direct/indirect sunlight didn't become a big issue until they started doing more shooting in indirect sunlight--for me this wasn't a big issue until AtS and/or BtVS S4, but YSunlightIssuesMV. And the concept of the Hellmouth was explained in episode one, even if it was elaborated and justified better in the Mayor arc.

But mostly, just what Nutty said.


UTTAD - Aug 07, 2003 8:36:05 am PDT #456 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

Sorry meeant, Angelus as opposed to vampAngel.

this wasn't a big issue until AtS and/or BtVS S4

Yes, this is the point I was making.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 07, 2003 8:40:20 am PDT #457 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

this wasn't a big issue until AtS and/or BtVS S4

Well, this is a subject they retconned considerably - in What's My Line, Willie mentions that Angel is going to need a few days to recover, and he was just sitting there watching the sunlight creep closer and getting weaker. By season 1 Angel he can practically go outside on a cloudy day (plus Spike running around with a blanket).


Micole - Aug 07, 2003 8:52:20 am PDT #458 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

>this wasn't a big issue until AtS and/or BtVS S4

Yes, this is the point I was making.

Then I don't think we're talking about the same thing.

Sunlight wasn't an issue for me because they seemed to be reasonably consistent about it for the first few seasons. This is very different from it being a critical piece of background setup for one of the characters which is frequently referenced and in contradictory ways.


UTTAD - Aug 07, 2003 9:01:00 am PDT #459 of 1424
Strawberry disappointment.

I think we differ on whether it's critical background or not.


DCJensen - Aug 07, 2003 9:02:44 am PDT #460 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Willie mentions that Angel is going to need a few days to recover

Yeah, but Willy could have just been doing what many people do, stating an opinion on what Angel looked like, not basing it on knowing Angel's tolerance.


Frankenbuddha - Aug 07, 2003 9:06:03 am PDT #461 of 1424
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

Yeah, but Willy could have just been doing what many people do, stating an opinion on what Angel looked like, not basing it on knowing Angel's tolerance.

Could be, but when was he ever again weakened by ANY amount of indirect sunlight? It's kind of like how the Master is the only vampire we've ever seen that left bones. Sure, he was old, but so was Kakistos and he dusted completely (not to mention Uber-vamps).