Simon: I swear when it's appropriate. Kaylee: Simon, the whole point of swearing is that it ain't appropriate.

'Jaynestown'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


DCJensen - Aug 05, 2003 9:31:22 am PDT #386 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Melinda Clarke reminds me of Musetta Vander.


Ash - Aug 05, 2003 9:33:22 am PDT #387 of 1424

I can absolutely see Kaylee making her way into a town, during one of those just-been-insulted-by-Simon moments, and doing whatever she feels like doing. I don't see her being pointlessly faithful just because she kinda likes Simon. She's more practical than that.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 9:38:38 am PDT #388 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

wrod.

I'm torn here -- I think there were big problems with the whole gender divide thing, and with the attitudes to sex. But the only female who might have had The Sex was Kaylee, and she is all with the Simon-fancying. But she's got a very healthy attitude to sex, and she fancied Tracey well enough -- it would have been entirely in character for her to try to get some, since getting some was on the cards. I could wish that we'd seen more of the boy whores, to know whether they were available for girls or just for blokes, and to know how tempted Kaylee was.

But I wouldn't entirely agree with the account of Jayne as a brute and Mal as a sad, conflicted man who need sexual healin'. I actually thought Jayne's enthusiasm for the sex was kinda cute -- real kid in a candy store stuff. But I'm a sucker for Jayne anyway -- in a weird way he actually reminds me of Dru at times -- he's so gleefully in the moment about stuff. I thought he was quite cute with the girl, but I'm probably being dumb. As for the captain -- I wouldn't say he's a sad, conflicted man or that he was getting sexual healing. I thought he was a bloke getting laid; he wasn't broken and she didn't fix him, but she was interested and pretty, and he hadn't had The Sex for heaven knows how long. I was okay with the Mal/Nandi shaggage -- it didn't have any negative connotations for me.

The fact that she promptly got shot and became a saintly figure who'd sacrificed herself for her girls -- that was not so great. Because she wasn't a tart with a heart of gold, despite the name -- she was a strong minded Madame who was supportive of her employees, but who was perfectly chilled about killing people to defend what's hers. But the Mal/Nandi chemistry and the sex-having all seemed feasible and non-exploitative to me.

YMMV


DCJensen - Aug 05, 2003 9:40:41 am PDT #389 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

You don't think the above interpretations aren't awfully convenient?

I think they are perfectly logical explainations for the characters as presented in previous episodes.

Do you really think that Kaylee, who had sex with a random moron just to get into Serenity's engine room, would "save herself" for Simon, especially considering she runs hot and cold on him?

Kaylee? She is smart enough to realize Simon is a bit conservative, and despite here "hot and cold" she does quite fancy him. She can get sex any planetfall more discretely and keep up the pretense in her relationship with the doctor.

You don't think it's possible for River to go out randomly seducing a boy (or girl), picking up and reflecting the minds she's reading?

While River could do those things, she hasn't been all that randomly sexual in prior episodes, so why now? Just because it's an episode about whores?

It would be more effective and unexpected in another episode.


DCJensen - Aug 05, 2003 9:45:44 am PDT #390 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

For that matter, is there a logical reason why a religious person could not have sex no-strings? Knowing as little as we do of Book's religion (except that it's vaguely Christian)?

No reason at all, except that over the previous 13 or so episodes he has *not* been presented as being an openly sexual being.


Kathy A - Aug 05, 2003 9:55:51 am PDT #391 of 1424
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil

Book specifically says (whitefonted for Objects in Space stuff) that his order didn't allow for sex, which means for me that other denominations/orders might (similar to the current different denominations of Christianity's rulings on their clergy's sex lives) .


lori - Aug 05, 2003 9:57:23 am PDT #392 of 1424

For that matter, is there a logical reason why a religious person could not have sex no-strings? Knowing as little as we do of Book's religion (except that it's vaguely Christian)?

From Objects in Space:

BOOK
 Well, no. 

JAYNE Not ever never?

BOOK Some orders allow Shepherds to marry, but I follow a narrower path.

JAYNE But, I mean, you still got the urge. They don't... cut it off, or nothin'?

BOOK Mm, no, I'm more or less intact. I just...

BOOK sits down at the kitchen table. RIVER quietly enters the kitchen area.

BOOK (cont'd) ...direct my energy elsewhere.

JAYNE You mean like masturbating?

BOOK I hope you're not thinking of taking orders yourself.


Nutty - Aug 05, 2003 10:07:43 am PDT #393 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

Huh -- I'd forgotten that part. Thanks for the correction.


Micole - Aug 05, 2003 11:51:55 am PDT #394 of 1424
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

Well, they could have had Inara/Nandi instead of Mal/Nandi. Two old friends getting together to talk about how things have changed--and Nandi trying to find out why Inara left, and Inara dancing around the subject--might have told us a lot more about Companions, and Inara's view of the role and herself, without hitting the cliche of Man Goes to Save Whorehouse, Gets Laid by Grateful Whore.

Nandi: (quiet, in the afterglow) I knew he was stuck on you, Inara. I didn't know it went both ways. (pause) I'm sorry.

Inara: (rolling over; view of her back) [whatsherpregnantname] needs help. (starts dressing)

--only, you know, with decent dialogue.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 11:54:59 am PDT #395 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Actually, that would have been splendid.

But I honestly think that more TV shows would have gone for Mal stoically resisting temptation and not getting laid, because he's harbouring feelings for Inara. I'd have been far more irritated and incredulous if he'd not had The Sex.