If you want me to leave, you can put your hands on my hot, tight little body and make me.

Spike ,'Get It Done'


Firefly Spoilers  

Discussion of all Firefly episodes, including "Trash", "The Message", "Heart of Gold", and any movie news.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 7:18:50 am PDT #377 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

(x postage)

Nutty, I'd love to see that -- especially the cribbage. That would be grand.

And now I really, really want to see an AU with genders switched. Hell yeah.


DXMachina - Aug 05, 2003 7:32:19 am PDT #378 of 1424
You always do this. We get tipsy, and you take advantage of my love of the scientific method.

That all given, it lets one rewrite HOG as a study of what sex-working really is, and contrast personal freedom to choose against exploitation. (And give Inara something to really be angsty about: a presumed superiority over unlicensed sex-workers, whereas the unlicensed ones don't have to toe the party line.) Let the conflict involve the son of the planetary Head Honcho, who has run away to become a sex worker rather than (say) marry. Let wackiness and violence thereby ensue.

Replace Burgess with Patience (Bonnie Bartlett's character in "Serenity"). Her son is working at the HoG. Petaline is pregnant with Patience's grandchild.


Fay - Aug 05, 2003 7:47:08 am PDT #379 of 1424
"Fuck Western ideologically-motivated gender identification!" Sulu gasped, and came.

Oooh, yes. Yes, that could be fun.

It is a damn shame that more was not made of the boys working at the HoG. (The title, incidentally, didn't piss me off -- but that's just because it takes me to a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy place. Which is nice.)

Are there male Companions? One would certainly think so, since evidently women use the Companion service, and there are plenty of places in the 'verse where women are sufficiently emancipated to be soldiers and mechanics. And the HoG boys were there for the Big Gay Sex. So you'd expect there, logically, to be male Companions too.

That I'd like to see. Mal's reaction to same, I'd like to see.

Hell, Inara as a man would have been fun, for that matter.


Ash - Aug 05, 2003 8:08:38 am PDT #380 of 1424

a space monkey in sore need of a spanking

Oh god. Now, for the first time in my life, I feel he urge to write some fan fiction.

And we should actually see someone hire Inara to play cribbage, or for gossip, or to instruct children in etiquette.

This is what *I* wanted to see. It really would have helped the companions idea to make more sense to me. In order for it to be more believable, I would have needed a) more male companions shown, b) companions do lots of things, like being hired to teach baroque piano, c) companions as an generalized Alliance cultural phenomenon would have made more sense than companions as higher-paid sex worker. Because as portrayed, it was hard to tell exactly how they were viewed, other than "Oh, they're supposed to be respectable but none of the characters seem to have noticed."

Certainly Shindig sends out a strong message that even in the higher strata of Alliance society, they are considered rented property. Which leaves me with the impression that few really believe the whole respectability thing, though the companions themselves are buying the myth.


CaBil - Aug 05, 2003 8:16:47 am PDT #381 of 1424
Remember, remember/the fifth of November/the Gunpowder Treason and Plot/I see no reason/Why Gunpowder Treason/Should ever be forgot.

I am not sure about that. Shindig did take place on a fringe world. A nice fringe world, mind you, but probably the equivalent of Carson City or some other large town/small city in the frontier. It's the only place for the want-to-be-cultured and the recently rich to hang out and impress their peers, but it is not a core world. The mere fact that in Shindig that Kaylee was talking to a bunch of the men about something mechanical means that most of them were only one step away from managing their property personally, or were still doing it. Nouveau rich.

Whereas the old money in the core worlds (a New York City in comparision) would probably look down at those gentry at the Shindig, or at least treat them as their social inferiors.

Extrapolating elite behavior from Shindig to the folks in the Core Worlds is probably a false linkage.


Holli - Aug 05, 2003 8:17:55 am PDT #382 of 1424
an overblown libretto and a sumptuous score/ could never contain the contradictions I adore

One thing about Shindig, though-- Persephone isn't a Core planet, is it? It's closer to the Core than, say, Canton, but not as swanky as Ariel or Osiris. So Companions are a lot more respectable on Persephone than they would be out on the Rim, but they're still sneered at a little. Further in, where the real high society is, it's different. I think.


Ash - Aug 05, 2003 9:19:45 am PDT #383 of 1424

That's true; I guess Shindig is kind of peripheral core. I guess what I really needed, then, was something on a core planet (Ariel, say) that would show me this companion respectability that people talk about in dialogue.


DCJensen - Aug 05, 2003 9:23:37 am PDT #384 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Have you noticed how only the male characters got any nooky? Kaylee talked about it, but didn't partake. So only brutes (Jayne) and sad, conflicted men who need sexual healin' (Mal) can partake of freely offered, no-strings sex. Oy.

I'm not so sure. Lets break down the cast.

Mal- Got some, we all saw that. He was more pragmatic than Inara, and he hasn't used his plow in a long time.

Zoe- She has Wash, and basically it appears she has all she wants right now.

Wash- See Zoe.

Book- Preacher, or at least is one right now. Some flirtation, really isn't his place to be having the Sex out in the open.

Kaylee- She's Jonzing for Simon, still, and in her way sending a signal that said "Hey, taking a little here would just be a substitute, I'm still working on Simon. He's a bit squeamish about sex, so I can deal without—for now."

Simon- All Doctorin. He's still a bit coreworld uptight, although Kaylee seems to be softening (hee) him up. Not going for the nookie.

Jayne- Well, yeah. Single, unattached, no hangups.

River- Still emotionally a child in many ways. She may be a sexual being, but right now pretty much a work in progress. If she had wanted to, it might have been a whole 'nother ep dealing with Simon's reaction.

Inara- She is a companion, she knows sex is sex, but also she is the only caracter other than Wash and Zoe that seems to have it on an (ir)regular basis. She was there in an assistance capacity and may also not felt like it. Mal issues played a part.

So, I guess I'm not seeing where any of the female cast but Kaylee *would* partake. And Kaylee has designs on Simon.


Nutty - Aug 05, 2003 9:29:05 am PDT #385 of 1424
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

You don't think the above interpretations aren't awfully convenient? You don't think it's possible for River to go out randomly seducing a boy (or girl), picking up and reflecting the minds she's reading? Do you really think that Kaylee, who had sex with a random moron just to get into Serenity's engine room, would "save herself" for Simon, especially considering she runs hot and cold on him?

For that matter, is there a logical reason why a religious person could not have sex no-strings? Knowing as little as we do of Book's religion (except that it's vaguely Christian)?


DCJensen - Aug 05, 2003 9:31:22 am PDT #386 of 1424
All is well that ends in pizza.

Melinda Clarke reminds me of Musetta Vander.