God, that was seriously intense. May have more to say after I catch up in the thread, but that won't be until at least Sunday.

I really almost barfed. aversion to gore + deep and abiding love for characters = much difficulty watching the fight scenes

I get the tactical reason they'd pick a place like that to hole up, but it was the one setting in the movie that felt like a soundstage rather than a real location.

I knew something bugged me about that. I think this was it.

Heh, or Joss has alternate footage of the entire last half hour of the movie and someone else buys the farm in Sept.

It makes me sad AND hopeful that I wouldn't put this past the man.

Joss's "You may call yourself browncoat" speech and the huge Braveheart style cheer that followed it.

I want to cry when I think about how he said, "We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty." More even, than when I think about Wash. But I'm a person who insists that Xander has TWO EYES, and Wesley NEVER DIED. (We'll let Fred die though, because Illyria is badass.) So I'm all "Wash? Dead? Clearly this movie takes place in an alternate universe." I am even thinking of it that way REALLY, a little. And while I know the Simon saving River thing can be made not a retcon, it felt retconny to me.

Mal felt pretty off: he felt much more like the Mal from the original Firefly script that Fox insisted be lightened up. Or at least a Mal from before "Safe" and "Ariel". This Mal saw Simon and River as outside, not members of his crew, in a way that I don't buy in the aftermath of the 13-ep run, especially the end of "Objects in Space". Which is not to say he isn't justified in being angry at not knowing about River's fighting ability; but the way it was expressed really made him less likeable than we know he is.

It is my sincere hope that the comic book will explain this - because I was actually ANGRY at Mal for a while there, thinking, "But you kept insisting before that they WERE part of your crew. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?"

I kept thinking "He'll get better! He'll have a space-age cure, right?" right up until I saw the gravestone.

smonster and I were sure that when the Alliance blew that door open it would be Wash. I was hoping for a Train Job like entrance, myself.

Did the other crowds go nuts in that scene when Mal hit the three switches?

I did. Though it seemed like he hit three different switches than Wash always did.

...I think what I missed most in the movie, what I wish had really been there, was the love for the ship itself that was in the show. I understand that things are different in film than TV, and they didn't have the time to develop that sense of space. But I kept being like, "This isn't MY ship!" (I have a complex where I think I'm Kaylee and/or Mal, depending on my mood) and stuff. So Zoe's line about making the ship an abomination hit me hard, and I was about to cry for THAT, when they showed it all Reavered up.

...I am sad about Book only because it bursts my theory about the possible trilogy going River-Book-Inara as central characters, because they were the three with secrets.

I WANT TO KNOW THE SECRETS, I'm pretty sure had the series lasted 5 years he would've died MUCH later on.

I liked Kaylee's line about vibrators.

And I think my favorite serious part of the whole movie was, "She's tore up plenty, but she'll fly true." I want to tag it, but I fear that it'd be spoilery and stuff.

Saw the preview last night, and as tommyrot and Kathy A. can attest, my reaction was, "That fucker killed my two favorite characters!" Strangely, I was more angry than sad. Stages of grief or whatever, I guess.

I loved the film. Loved it. I do think that non-tv show people will not care about the deaths very much. Or even care about the danger the crew is in. I don't think the movie does a very good job of character development as a stand-alone.

I was actually ANGRY at Mal for a while there

My friend who saw it for the first time last night felt the same way. He did suggest that his behavior might have something to do with Inara leaving, because once they got her back he was behaving more like TV!Mal.

I do know Joss and Nathan have talked about how each member of the crew are parts of Mal's psyche and he keeps them close because it helps him hang on those parts of himself. It's possible Inara's presence helps temper his rage and sense of loss after the war. Mal complains to her about her clouding things up for him. On some level, he _wants_ to be the bad guy, to stop caring, but he won't let himself and Inara reminds him of that.

But yeah, hopefully there will be an explanation in the comic book.

I do know Joss and Nathan have talked about how each member of the crew are parts of Mal's psyche and he keeps them close because it helps him hang on those parts of himself.

I think Book helped him in this respect too. The whole "you're not that person" (or whatever the line was) and "you gotta have faith" thing seemed to be what tipped Mal into trying to save River again.

eta: OK, that's not quite right, as Mal did save River before talking to Book. But Book helped him along that path....

Saw the preview last night, and as tommyrot and Kathy A. can attest, my reaction was, "That fucker killed my two favorite characters!" Strangely, I was more angry than sad. Stages of grief or whatever, I guess.

I was right there with you with the rage after seeing it the first time. (Though Kaylee beats out Wash and Book for my favorite character, they're right behind her.) I'm still not happy about it, but I've gone through all the stages to acceptance at this point. I agree that I don't think people familiar with the series will get much of an impact out of the deaths. That said, the amount of tension in the climax that was too much for me, might work perfectly for people new to the story who aren't as invested in the characters.

He did suggest that his behavior might have something to do with Inara leaving, because once they got her back he was behaving more like TV!Mal.

I thought of this, much later. In the car, on the way home. An hour into the drive. Once I was done complaining.

I said to Chris Buchanan, "I WILL NEVER FORGIVE JOSS!" and then followed that with a quiet, "But this isn't the first time I've said that," which drew laughter from the few fans remaining when I went to talk to him. (I waited for the line to go away. My intention was to be at the front of it, but I always run to the side of the autograph table. Which is fun and makes me feel special, but means I don't ACTUALLY get to talk to the cool people.) Joss is a devil man. He rips out my heart and jumps up and down on it. Then he puts it back in place VERY carefully, so it can MOSTLY heal before he rips it out again.

Joss is Niska. But cuter.

I think Book helped him in this respect too. The whole "you're not that person" (or whatever the line was) and "you gotta have faith" thing seemed to be what tipped Mal into trying to save River again.

Good point. And it ties into the way Serenity the episode Mal is not nearly as dark as Serenity the movie Mal, who in turn are darker than the rest of the TV run Mal. In the beginning of Serenity the episode, we have Inara on his crew, but no Book yet, so Mal is less-ragey than he could be, but still not the character we see through the rest of the run. Once Book integrates with the crew, Mal gets tempered further into the character we're most familiar with.

I was actually ANGRY at Mal for a while there, thinking, "But you kept insisting before that they WERE part of your crew. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?"

I felt the same way, having recently re-watched all the episodes that aired. Granted, Mal isn't warm and fuzzy to Simon and River in the series, but he's also very matter-of-fact about them being part of his crew, and if you fuck with his crew, you fuck with him.

More random thoughts on the movie:

* After the movie, SA, LingMao and I were talking about how, when the bounty hunter skewered Mal, all we could think was "This is *nothing* -- Mal's been through WAY worse!"

* Honestly, what I liked the best was how amazing Gina Torres was. How she was able to have Zoe react as a wife when Wash got skewered, and then immediately switch to soldier mode. That was the best, purest distillation of Zoe's character I've seen.

And is it wrong that, in the scene at the graves, all I could think was "DAMN, Gina Torres is HOTT!!!"?

* Most of the characters seemed the same as in the series; Mal was the most notable exception, being rather darker, but I also think Jayne was tweaked just a little, to make him a little less -- "dumb" isn't the right word for how he was in the series -- maybe what I mean is that in the movie, he seemed just a little more aware of how things impacted the whole crew rather than just himself. If that makes sense.

And while Simon's personality was the same, I found it interesting that he had more agency in the film than in the series. (But was it necessary to put him in that blue outfit that made him look like an ice dancer?)

* I think that, for viewers who have never seen the series, most of the movie is very accessible and doesn't need the extra backstory from the series. However, I think there needed to be more backstory on Inara (though I *loved* "That's not incense.") and how she fit in with the crew.

* And, as someone who *really* disliked the Chinese slang in the series, because I don't think there were enough external markers to show a strong Asian influence on the world they existed in -- I thought the movie did a bang-up job of giving the various settings an Asian influence.

Oh, and I loved how gracefull Summer was in her fight scenes. One reviewer called it "ballet-fu."