With the exception of Xander and (after S3) Giles, all the characters you identified with were always women
You really don't think Angel counted?
Love isn't brains, children, it's blood, blood screaming inside you to work its will.
Spike ,'Sleeper'
Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.
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§ ita § - Sep 02, 2004 6:40:43 am PDT #8906 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Fred Pete - Sep 02, 2004 6:46:35 am PDT #8907 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.
You really don't think Angel counted?
In hindsight, Angel seems slightly idealized or even removed from the mainstream. He evolved from a Mysterious Presence to Buffy's Older Boyfriend. (I'm separating Angel from Angelus for this purpose.)
Even after he returned in S3, he's metaphorically the boyfriend who's gone off to college. They may have a relationship, but there's a barrier between them. Instead of distance, there's the gypsy curse.
It's possible to identify with him then, but not easy.
§ ita § - Sep 02, 2004 6:48:38 am PDT #8908 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
It's possible to identify with him then, but not easy.
I never identified with any of them, so I have a perspective gap. I mean, if push came to shove, there's some weird Spikification going on there, but that's because he's wearing my clothes, most likely.
I liked them all, varying amounts, and intellectually understood where you might plug into Buffy or Xander, but that was about it.
P.M. Marc - Sep 02, 2004 6:53:35 am PDT #8909 of 10001
So come, my friends, be not afraid/We are so lightly here/It is in love that we are made; In love we disappear
The part where she was fleeing gives it a different vibe for me, though.
On the bright side, at least Angelus didn't stick her in the fridge.
Has it been mentioned onscreen, ever, that he wasn't dead? I mean, in rebuttal to the claim he was?
Nope, I don't believe so. Unless you count Willow's "And that all worked out okay..." in Selfless.
§ ita § - Sep 02, 2004 6:57:33 am PDT #8910 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I am very down with the idea that you can play a part in the big battle against evil without being able to do a single physical thing. Hence my irritation with the superification of Cordelia.
Sure, there are Justines and Gunns, but Wesleys and Freds need bigger weapons.
Jenny couldn't have done a damned thing to save her life, but she was fighting the good fight, in a very valuable way, and as such, she was a combatant in the larger sense, in the way I parse things.
Being physically vulnerable is not being powerless.
Strega - Sep 02, 2004 6:59:59 am PDT #8911 of 10001
Gandalfe, I sent you the spreadsheet. There's also a zipped copy (it's an Excel file) on my site here if anyone cares. (It's just zipped out of habit; it's not like it's a big file.)
Their list of recurring characters seems goofier every time I look at it, so have many grains of salt handy, but Good/Bad/Other breakdown...
Buffy
22 villains: 6 women, 16 men. This doesn't include Allan Finch (RIP), Willy, or Parker, because I couldn't decide which side to put them on.
3 of the 6 women were killed.
14 of the 16 men were killed. (6 by Buffy.)
31 heroes: 15 women, 16 men. 7 of the 15 women were killed. 4 of the 16 men were killed.
Angel
17 villains: 6 women, 11 men. Left in the ambiguous category: Illyria, Justine, Holtz (RIP), and Merl (RIP).
3 of the 6 women were killed.
11 of the 11 men were killed. (But only 3 by Angel. Loser!)
15 heroes: 6 women, 9 men. 2 of the 6 women were killed. 2 of the 9 men were killed.
I wonder if I can add a column for # of episodes... hm.
Fred Pete - Sep 02, 2004 7:04:39 am PDT #8912 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.
So one thing is clear -- if you're a male, it's much healthier to be a hero.
Strega - Sep 02, 2004 7:14:45 am PDT #8913 of 10001
Yes. And it's extremely unhealthy to date Angel. I just realized this morning that if you fall in love with Angel, you'll kill yourself. Or at the very least, deliberately do something that causes your own death.
So Lindsey was doomed no matter what...
Lyra Jane - Sep 02, 2004 7:23:47 am PDT #8914 of 10001
Up with the sun
With the exception of Xander and (after S3) Giles, all the characters you identified with were always women
I think it's possible to identify with Oz or Riley (pre-vamp ho visits) at least as much as it's possible to identify with Tara or Anya -- all four are on the show as romantic partners. But like ita, I don't really identify with anyone, so I'm not sure I'm right about this. Why do you think the women are easier to identify with?
Matt the Bruins fan - Sep 02, 2004 7:33:03 am PDT #8915 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Yes. And it's extremely unhealthy to date Angel. I just realized this morning that if you fall in love with Angel, you'll kill yourself. Or at the very least, deliberately do something that causes your own death.
Hmm. If we count self preservation instinct-free curiousity, this even applies to Fred. She and Angel did go out to the movies together and then again for ice cream.
So Lindsey was doomed no matter what...
I think Lindsey was aiming for suicide via dating Angel.