God only knows how. I mean, they had all of S5 to watch people's reactions to him, and to the idea of his Love For Buffy; they didn't notice people were investing and rooting for the couple?
I suspect they didn't quite grasp the degree.
This brings up something I've been trying to get my head around - is it inevitable that the creators/writers of a show will lose their ability to gauge audience response at some point? Joss & Co. were (or at least seemed) able to correctly foresee general response to their storylines and manipulate (in a good way!) viewers accordingly up through Season 4 on Buffy and in both Seasons 1-2 AND 4-5 on Angel, but lost touch from 5 onward on the parent show and in Season 3 when the original exec producing team had been on the spin-off for several years. That it happened in different years on the different shows tells me that Joss alone was not at fault, as does Jeff Bell coming in and sparking a renaissance. But at some point after a certain period spent working, the crew seems unable to forsee—or even to recognize as they're occurring—missteps such as the woobification of Spike, the magic crack storyline, Angel/Cordy, or the fact that Wesley was much better paired with Lilah than with Fred. We've seen this effect on numerous other shows (Chris Carter, I'm lookin' at you!), and the fact that the best collective of television writers I've ever seen were not immune makes me think this might be something universal and unavoidable, except by bringing in an infusion of new blood with different styles and approaches.
And then there are Andrew and Jonathan, who willfully follow him. It was interesting, and a bit disturbing, to see them agree to these morally depraved plans about making women their love slaves. And Andrew slowly grows to accept Warren's evil ways, whereas Jonathan begins to realize this isn't what he signed up for.
Even though I don't like S6, I will say that "Dead Things" was probably the most disturbing BtVS episode ever for me (and I mean that in a good way). To watch these "harmless" guys turn into rapists without realizing it? Scarier than any monster they ever had on that show.
But at some point after a certain period spent working, the crew seems unable to forsee—or even to recognize as they're occurring—missteps such as the woobification of Spike, the magic crack storyline, Angel/Cordy, or the fact that Wesley was much better paired with Lilah than with Fred.
To a point, sure. It's the 100th monkey rule, in reverse. The longer a show goes on, the more chances they'll have to screw something up, the more chances outside forces like networks will screw something up, the more chances that an actor bailing or other event will have the whole team off balance, and the more chance that a bunch of folks sitting around in an office will think something sounds great and then not realize that, well, they were wrong until they're kind of committed to it... ie, it's on the fricking screen and they can hear the sound of fans groaning in the distance.
And, of course, there's always the fact that writers working on a long-running show are often a bit disconnected, as they spend most of their time, well, writing the show. And, on the positive side, there's also the fact that, on a show like BtVS, they'll keep trying to push themselves in unexpected directions. Sometimes, this works well, but it leaves you more room for egg on your face.
Good call, DavidS (Hec, right?
Yep. Welcome aboard, btw.
I wonder about that too, Matt. Though by all indications ME staff have always taken the pulse of the fans by reading the boards. You can see them pulling back from the magic crack storyline and Angel/Cordy after fans reacted negatively.
One thing about Spike's portrayal in S5/S6 - there were deep splits among the writing staff about how bad Spike really was, with Fury famously against Spike being redeemed without a soul. This is often seen as Spike-hatin' by Fury, but I think it's just as much an investment in the canon of the show to that point. That the whole moral framework of the show depended on having a clear bright line there.
Well, not Lorne's variety of Pylean specifically, but the Groosalug is living proof that humans and at least some of the residents of Pylea can interbreed.
Okay, humans and Pylean humans. Not necessarily humans and the greens guys. Although we do know that some demons can interbreed with humans, like Doyle's parents for example.
No, no. The Groosalug had "cow blood", implying that he, himself, was half-human half-Pylean. So some sort of non-cow
Pylean could interbreed with the humans, else there would be no Groo.
See, I think you've got it totally arse-about-face. The problems start when ME started
trying
to second-guess. Somewhere in Buffy S4, and in Angel S3, they started pandering. The fans like Spike. The fans like flashbacks. The fans like the big arcs. Hey! Let's bring darla back!
I thought the Groosulag was meant to be a kind of mutant wasn't he? When he was doing the whole "look at my big manly mis-shapen arms, the foul turn of my grotesque mouth, the beastly hue of my glinting eyes" and all that.
