This is the thing that bugs me as much as anything. All of sudden we had a red tide of red herring in S7. And none of them fucking panned out as interesting. Or even necessarily coherent. It was cheap.
WROD.
Oh yeah, speaking of untied threads, they never did say where the talisman in the season 7 premiere came from, did they?
What bothered me more than the hanging plot threads, were the hanging character threads. I didn't enjoy S6, but they took a lot of very risky character chances that year, only to completely ignore them in S7. Oh, they addressed the PLOT of S6, but they never, ever addressed character development.
They break up Anya and Xander for very interesting reasons that hint at flaws and problems ingrained in the characters. Then they explore it a bit in "Selfless" and then it's never addressed again. There was so freakin' much they could have done with both Xander and Anya and we got nothing.
Willow's "character development" consisted almost solely of one extremely boring affair with Kennedy. Buffy got to make a lot of speeches and apparently not only forgave Spike for attacking her, but also seemed to have no lingering issues about it after a few episodes. And Giles got to have the lamest subplot in ME history. It's so sad when you've got an actor like ASH, and all you can come up for him to do is to act distant and not touch things.
I watched Storyteller a little while ago, and I was amazed at something I didn't notice when it first aired. (I'm sure everyone here already picked up on this.) Buffy is the storyteller. She hates Andrew so much, because everything he says reminds her of the lies she's telling these people all the time. I think the reason I didn't notice this then (besides the fact that I'm slow) is that the rest of the season gave no indication of this kind of layering to Buffy's character. God, it was just a shallow mess.
Oh yeah, speaking of untied threads, they never did say where the talisman in the season 7 premiere came from, did they?
I've decided that in my personal fanon, Wood planted it in order to determine whether or not Buffy was the slayer. Once he was certain she was, he decided to hire her to keep an eye on her. But in Sunnydale, a talisman could end up in the high school ladies' room any old way. A student, teacher, or janitor, dabbling in the occult, could have left it there. Spike, under the thrall of the FE, could have obtained and left it there. One of the FE's Harbingers could have planted it. It was dropped, sure, but it wasn't like the story made little-to-no sense without an explanation for its presence.
The Eye of Botox and Not!Joyce bothered me more. There are explanations for them, but they should have been used to better effect, and I think if they had, the story would have been better.
I don't fault the writers too much for the use of Giles. I was under the impression at the time, that they were never sure when they would have access to ASH.
I do think though, that the is it Giles/it is Evilex shell game went on too long. There's misdirection, and then there's just poor storytelling (Spike's Give the bitch what she deserves is another example of the too heavy-handed use of misdirection).
I watched Storyteller a little while ago, and I was amazed at something I didn't notice when it first aired. (I'm sure everyone here already picked up on this.) Buffy is the storyteller. She hates Andrew so much, because everything he says reminds her of the lies she's telling these people all the time. I think the reason I didn't notice this then (besides the fact that I'm slow) is that the rest of the season gave no indication of this kind of layering to Buffy's character. God, it was just a shallow mess.
I don't remember that in
Storyteller,
at all. I am not doubting you, I just never noticed it, so you're not the last one here, at least. Would you explicate, a little?
The only bit I remember when Buffy talked about lying is when she was trying to get Andrew nervous, and said she was tired of lying and telling everyone they were going to be okay (or live, or whatever) but that they wouldn't. Most of the revelations in this seemed to be about Andrew, Wood, and Xander/Anya, as far as I can recall, that is.
I don't remember that in Storyteller, at all. I am not doubting you, I just never noticed it, so you're not the last one here, at least. Would you explicate, a little?
Well, I could be reading too much into it, but Buffy is the only one bothered by Andrew and his documentory. So bothered that the other characters notice and wonder why. Then there are several references to all the speeches she's been making lately. And when she confronts Andrew on the seal, he says:
Andrew: You said we could all get through this.
Buffy: I made it up. I'm making it all up. So, what kind of hero does that make me?
And then later,
Andrew: You weren't really going to stab me, were you?
Buffy: I wasn't going to stab you.
Andrew: What if the tears didn't work?
Buffy doesn't answer.
It's very apparent how disgusted Buffy is with herself, but she's still sort of clinging to the lie that she's the hero. She was probably going to stab him if that hadn't worked.
It's very apparent how disgusted Buffy is with herself, but she's still sort of clinging to the lie that she's the hero. She was probably going to stab him if that hadn't worked.
Interesting, though, that that makes this the point where she decides to stop lying.
It's very apparent how disgusted Buffy is with herself, but she's still sort of clinging to the lie that she's the hero. She was probably going to stab him if that hadn't worked.
I loved the ambiguity of her non-response. It emphasized her conversation with Giles in "Lies My Parents Told Me" when she told Giles she could make a hard decision and made you realize she really might sacrifice Dawn if she had to fight Glory again. It also punched up the fact that the conversation with Giles was totally pointless from Buffy's point of view, leading both her and the viewer to realize that Giles really had nothing left to teach her. I loved it when she actually told Giles that (for Pod!Giles had so supremely pissed me off) at the end of the episode. But, part of the package of being the Slayer is maintaining that facade of "we will prevail." So Buffy did lie to everyone for most of the season, because that was what they wanted to hear. It's what they expected of her. Just as she expected it from Giles in season 2 in "Lie to Me," but didn't believe it because she knew not to believe it. Unfortunately, nobody in season 7 except Buffy really seemed to understand that, not even Giles anymore.
So Buffy did lie to everyone for most of the season, because that was what they wanted to hear. It's what they expected of her. Just as she expected it from Giles in season 2 in "Lie to Me," but didn't believe it because she knew not to believe it. Unfortunately, nobody in season 7 except Buffy really seemed to understand that, not even Giles anymore.
It would have been interesting if they had thrown this idea into the fight in "Empty Places."
Yes, yes, yes! That's why "Empty Places" pissed me off so much. I was ready to take an Uzi to the entire Scooby gang, even Dawn. It was a worse breach of faith than them pulling her out of Heaven in S6.
If Buffy didn't want them to treat her like the Lord High Savior, she probably would've been well-served to say something to that effect at some point, rather than issuing smackdowns every time anyone else popped their head up. I mean, I sympathize with the situation she was in, and I know her intentions were good, but by the time we hit Empty Places I was convinced that had I been in the place of any of the other folks on the show I'd've stopped listening to her weeks before.
I mean, I was angry with her. Furious with the way she was behaving. And Buffy was my girl, I'd loved her best for years.
and it didn't become clear until pretty late that S7 would be the last.
not true, actually. Joss always said that buffy would have a 7 season arc.
X-post from Angel thread
I just saw this info on the Headline News ticker. I found the article on ScifiWire:
Buffy/Angel TV Film Possible?
The WB has approached Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Angel creator Joss Whedon about doing at least a movie-of-the-week or two?and possibly as many as six?next season, thanks in large part to a fan campaign organized by Saving Angel, E! Online's Watch With Kristin column reported. But the columnist added that, despite Herculean efforts by fans to save the canceled vampire show, Angel won't be coming back as a regular series, either on the frog network or on UPN or Fox, which have both passed.
"I think a Buffy movie is more likely to happen now," Angel cast member James Marsters (Spike) told the columnist. "And they may be given better budgets, seeing this kind of interest, because there's a feeling that there's a guaranteed audience. So the effort that I've seen, it is not in vain."
Meanwhile, E! Online reported that The WB executives have decided to review an episode of Fox's canceled fantasy series Wonderfalls along with its pilots, which means it is in the running for a fall-season pickup.
Interesting news if it pans out. I guess you just can't ignore this fandom. </Alex Forrest>
