Death is your art. You make it with your hands day after day. That final gasp, that look of peace. And part of you is desperate to know: What's it like? Where does it lead you? And now you see, that's the secret. Not the punch you didn't throw or the kicks you didn't land. She really wanted it. Every Slayer has a death wish. Even you.

Spike ,'Conversations with Dead People'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


DavidS - Apr 14, 2004 5:31:26 am PDT #7519 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I liked S6, loved the Dark Willow arc, got way too much enjoyment about her beating on Buffy, and thought the end run of episodes totally redeemed the fallen souffle of the middle.


Fred Pete - Apr 14, 2004 5:31:29 am PDT #7520 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

I don't remember what the stated theme was in season 6.

I thought it was, "Being a grown-up is hell." Or some other version, hell doesn't end when you graduate high school.

I wonder if they'd had a slower build to a different kind of Dark Willow, if it would have worked better for me.

It could have been done. As you mentioned, Cindy, there's her difficulty in dealing with rejection ("Something Blue" is especially relevant to what we're discussing). She resented being the brainy sidekick (there's a speech in "Grave" where that comes out loud and clear). There's her status in high school ("softer side of Sears").

And where things were going in late S5/early S6, ME seemed to be setting up a "power trip" story line. The 1-on-1 fight with Glory may have been the first moment where we realized how powerful Willow really could be. By the time she smacked down Giles ("Flooded"?), the "trip" was there. And certainly by the engagement party ("All the Way"), she was treating her power much too casually.

Looking back, I don't think it was the Actual Car Crash that did the story line in. It was de-ratting Amy. Partly because of making everyone disappear at the Bronze (though that fits in with the power trip), but mostly because Amy introduced Willow to Rak.


Steph L. - Apr 14, 2004 5:38:13 am PDT #7521 of 10001
I look more rad than Lutheranism

I don't remember what the stated theme was in season 6.

I think it was "Kinky Sex: It's Not Just For HBO Any More!"


Fred Pete - Apr 14, 2004 5:50:49 am PDT #7522 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

I think it was "Kinky Sex: It's Not Just For HBO Any More!"

So, you're saying "The Replacement" was a year too early?


Topic!Cindy - Apr 14, 2004 5:51:22 am PDT #7523 of 10001
What is even happening?

ITA that if Dark!Willow had been around for much longer, the conception of her would have to have been quite a bit different. You really can't keep up "Witch Smash!" for much more than that.

When I read those foilers, I had hoped that the season would be ambiguous in a different way. That Willow would have gotten involved with the Trio or something else bad, but that it wouldn't clearly be bad, and bad from the beginning. As Fred points out, as early as All the Way, we knew she was doing very bad things, because she mind-wiped Tara. Even as early as (I think) Flooded, we knew she was gone with the "Maybe you'd better not piss me off," comment to Giles.

I actually really enjoyed season 6, it's at least in my top half of seasons of BtVS (I think).

I liked S6, loved the Dark Willow arc, got way too much enjoyment about her beating on Buffy, and thought the end run of episodes totally redeemed the fallen souffle of the middle.

To me, Willow's Buffy smackdown didn't make much sense, so it didn't work. I think it could have. Throughout the series as a whole, I think there have been plenty of storylines that support Willow's dissatisfaction with being the sidekick, but it didn't fit where they put it, and how they put it. She brought Buffy back from Heaven. I don't think she ever even apologized or tried to talk to Buffy, she just tried to mindwipe her. For her part, I don't think Buffy ever even got blame-y with Willow. As far as we can tell, she mooched off of Buffy, as did Tara (although Tara pulled her weight by being the only actual grown up on the series in S6, and I include S6!Giles in that indictment).

Looking back, I don't think it was the Actual Car Crash that did the story line in. It was de-ratting Amy. Partly because of making everyone disappear at the Bronze (though that fits in with the power trip), but mostly because Amy introduced Willow to Rak.

I wouldn't have wanted Buffy to be vamped in Season 7, but I would have enjoyed her being bad, in a less metaphory (the FE) way. I feel a similar dissatisfaction (although for different reasons) with Willow in s6. For all that I thought the booksuck, and flaying were exciting, and the smackdowns with Buffy and Giles were hurty (which is good, in that we want to have reactions to these things), and for all that the breaky yellow crayon speech and obligatory!Sarah-Song made me cry, when I look at it now, most of the final two hours just feel like camp, and not good camp.


erikaj - Apr 14, 2004 6:17:05 am PDT #7524 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

I still have a soft spot for the yellow crayon speech.


Frankenbuddha - Apr 14, 2004 6:25:29 am PDT #7525 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I still have a soft spot for the yellow crayon speech.

Well, it's Xander saving the world for once (twice if you count The Zeppo). Without super-powers or magic. Any sentimentality the speech may have had felt earned to me.


erikaj - Apr 14, 2004 6:29:47 am PDT #7526 of 10001
Always Anti-fascist!

Well, yes, and that whole "Friends forevah" thing that I am a big sucker for, no matter where I see it.(Although with my new tag, everything soft I say looks ironic. Did I do that on purpose? One of the mysteries of life...)


Rayne - Apr 14, 2004 6:36:15 am PDT #7527 of 10001
"Oh no! Has falling sky liquid once again caused you the sadness?" -Starfire

I loved the beginning and end of season 6, but the middle suuuuucked!

But even the middle was better than season 7. Season 7 made me hate my favorite character (Buffy.) And I never thought that would happen. I'll always be convinced that by the time season 7 rolled around, the writers hated SMG and reflected that hatred in the writing of Buffy (the character).

Two things I regret not seeing - 1) a vamped slayer, 2) exploring Buffy's darkness. Sure, they kept promising they'd explore it, but they never really did.


Thomash - Apr 14, 2004 6:53:26 am PDT #7528 of 10001
I have a plan.

Just once, I would like a relationship to end without death or town-leaving. I would love for it to be Willow/Kennedy, but, whatever. A nice, kinda normal, "this really isn't working."

What about Xander and Anya? It was about as normal (though poorly timed) a breakup as one could get, living where they live.