My whole life, I've never loved anything else.

Oz ,'Him'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


victor infante - May 16, 2003 10:39:49 am PDT #387 of 10001
To understand what happened at the diner, we shall use Mr. Papaya! This is upsetting because he's the friendliest of fruits.

I'm not spoiled; just thinking of what SiT would REALLY irritate me to be Slayer.

Oh, come on! You don't want to start each Tuesday wih ASH saying, "Previously, on Hat Girl the Vampire Slayer?

BTW--we saw the girl who plays Vi on a commercial for Financial Planning Services. She was playing the cello!

I think Wood became twisted in his quest for his mother's killer but I still think he would have been justified in killing him.

I think the fact that Wood had to trigger Spike to return "monstrousness" is enough of a clue that Spike had changed so much that even Wood couldn't justify killing him.

Which leads me to a thought about where Buffy and Spike seem to be coming from about the same place, vis a vis Wood: the fair fight. Pre-chipping, Spike and Buffy saw themselves as fair targets for each other. As Spike put it in LMPTM, that's the game. Slayers vs. Vampires. When the rules changed, when Spike was chipped, it was no longer a fair fight. I can see why Buffy had problems staking him right off there.

Also, I've been thinking about the "Predator" Spike of Sleeper and the "Feral" Spike of LMPTM, and realize the difference now--in the earlier episodes, the FE was directly influencing brainwashed Spike. In the later one, Spike's got his demon up, but with nothing directing it.

Just thoughts. I need to go write now.


Sophia Brooks - May 16, 2003 10:43:06 am PDT #388 of 10001
Cats to become a rabbit should gather immediately now here

Is knowing how Fray starts being spoiled? because that really changes how I view the end.


Glamcookie - May 16, 2003 10:45:52 am PDT #389 of 10001
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

I think the fact that Wood had to trigger Spike to return "monstrousness" is enough of a clue that Spike had changed so much that even Wood couldn't justify killing him.

I took it to be that since Spike was in vampface when he killed Wood's mother, that's what Wood wanted to stake. I don't think Wood had any clue how much Spike had or hadn't changed as he wasn't around to witness any change.


Maysa - May 16, 2003 10:50:54 am PDT #390 of 10001

Here's my really corny idea for the finale. Buffy's power was forced on the slayer by the "shadowmen" so I think she's going to realize that she doesn't need it. That all her power comes from within and she's either going to reject the primal slayer power or she's going to release it back into the world and maybe transfer her power, not to Faith, but to every woman on the planet. We'll all get a little of it.

And then Anya and Xander realize that they still love each other and they run and get Caleb to marry them. It will be a beautiful ceremony.


Deena - May 16, 2003 10:51:54 am PDT #391 of 10001
How are you me? You need to stop that. Only I can be me. ~Kara

For the end, totally unspoiled speculation: I think Buffy will ascend and become some higher-power/balance against the FE, incorporeal goddess type creature.


Wolfram - May 16, 2003 10:51:58 am PDT #392 of 10001
Visilurking

I took it to be that since Spike was in vampface when he killed Wood's mother, that's what Wood wanted to stake.

Trigger does not equal vamp face. Vamp face does not equal evil. The only thing Wood knew when he played the trigger was that evil Spike would emerge.

I don't think Wood had any clue how much Spike had or hadn't changed as he wasn't around to witness any change.

He had more than a clue. He'd been around Spike long enough to see trigger!Spike and good!Spike. You can't honestly say that Wood thought Spike was still evil when he started in on his mission to kill him.


askye - May 16, 2003 10:52:19 am PDT #393 of 10001
Thrive to spite them

Andrew needs to live through this and find someone.


sarameg - May 16, 2003 10:55:00 am PDT #394 of 10001

And then Anya and Xander realize that they still love each other and they run and get Caleb to marry them. It will be a beautiful ceremony.

And there are tears in my eyes and did you know stifling snorts of laughter hurts?


Steph L. - May 16, 2003 10:55:05 am PDT #395 of 10001
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe

Andrew needs to live through this and find someone.

::cough::Xander::cough::


Fred Pete - May 16, 2003 10:55:56 am PDT #396 of 10001
Ann, that's a ferret.

So do you think there are others who would be justified in staking Spike?

There are times where I think anyone would have been justified. The end of AYW, late in SR. I'm not sure she'd have been justified, but I wouldn't have been morally outraged if Tara had done it on behalf of Buffy during OAFA (Out of character for her, and morally questionable, yes. But not morally outrageous, if I'm making myself clear.)

During the time when Spike was under the FE's thrall, anyone with no reason to know the full story would have been justified.

As for now, hmmmm. Buffy and Faith, or possibly others, acting on behalf of innocent past victims. If Wood had done it at the end of LMPTM, it might have been at least understandable as a reaction to Spike's "your mother didn't love you because she had a job outside the home" comment (although, yeah, Wood provoked Spike).

I have trouble justifying what Wood actually for two reasons, though. First, Nikki wasn't an innocent victim. She was the Slayer, perfectly able to fight back and actually doing so. For me, this takes the matter into the war metaphor. Second, Wood ambushed Spike. He convinced Giles to get Buffy out of the way. He lured Spike to his home on the pretext of -- don't remember exactly at the moment, was it first aid for wounds suffered in another fight? He downloaded and played the trigger song.

There are a lot of other ways Wood could have reacted to the info that would have been less blameworthy. Pull back, go back to operating on his own. Even if, in the school hallway at the end of -- "First Date"? -- he'd done a "you killed my mother; prepare to die" and rushed Spike with a stake, I could have upgraded the action to morally disturbing.

And on that note, I need to get lunch. So I'll be away for a bit.