Yeah. I think I let go rather easily as long as there haven't already been promises made and things done. It's after that point, when they've said they do, and then one day they don't that sucks for me.

The crush I can handle.

In my younger days, I somehow had it in my head that staying true to your crushes even when it was clear they weren't interested just proved what a constant, loving person you were, and would eventually convince the crushee of your true worth, instead of making you look pathetic and idiotic.

Damn, I was stupid when I was younger and therefore smaller and shorter than I am now.

As to ships, I have nothing against them, per se, but I think my fundamental problem with them, when taken to extremes, is that they push too much toward defining characters by their relationships, when a good deal of the show has been about doing the exact opposite.

What. Victor. Said.

Crushes suck ass.

Like Heather & Susan, I think crushes can be fine, if not wonderful, provided it doesn't start to turn into something icky.

And I too have succumbed to this:

In my younger days, I somehow had it in my head that staying true to your crushes even when it was clear they weren't interested just proved what a constant, loving person you were, and would eventually convince the crushee of your true worth, instead of making you look pathetic and idiotic.

Yep. BTDT.

I don't think I thought about convincing them of anything. I just thought "oooh pretty. Oh and he makes my tummy do funny things. I'm going to sigh and stare a lot."

I actually had a crush on a guy once, who if he had returned feelings, would have completely ended my crush. He was adoreable and married, and seemed a decent guy, Of course had he returned feelings, he would not have been a decent guy. Never meant to be, but he was all pretty and manly.

You guys bring up good points about the positive aspects of crushes. In the past year or so being crush free I have had less interesting things to daydream and think about at work.

*makes note to self* Sean and Susan may well be stalkers.

I agree on the whole Buffy and Xander 'its better that they stayed friends deal' even though it still grates my cheese that she never gave him a chance. Im weird like that.

I never saw it as her having her nose in the air. If, after realizing he wanted to go out with her, Buffy had pulled back from the friendship, and tried to exclude him from the Scoobies, I would have, or at least I would have seen where that interpretation comes from. But she loves Xander, just as she loves Giles and Willow.

I think at least a small part of Buffy and Xander never getting together was timing. She was infatuated and then involved with Angel the only time Xander was really free and pursuing her. By the time Angel left for L.A., Xander had already been involved with Cordelia and Willow. At the beginning of season 4, I think Xander and Anya got involved before Buffy and Riley did. There were times, the beginning of BBaB in season 2, and the beginning of The Freshman in season 4, where I think, had Xander made another move, Buffy might have given him a shot. Ditto the beginning of season 7.

I'm with Victor about the husband/wife vibe they had going on in early season 7. It was a big tease, too, to this frustrated B/X 'shipper who tries not to be (because I really agree with Cate on the whole about exploring a friendship on the show). In fact, I felt there were little indicators from Hell's Bells on, that Buffy would not* necessarily reject Xander again, if only he approached it, and did so lightly.

Ah well. We all should have such friends of the opposite sex.

*edited because I forgot the "not" and that changes the whole meaning.

(represses further Spoldemort arguments boiling up to surface of her brain, desperate to be expressed)

Just caught one of my favourite quotes, from S3, Enemies, Willow to Buffy:

``I, too, know the love of a taciturn man.''

There was actually a moment between Buffy and Xander in, uh, forgotten the title, the first episode when a werewolve turns up. They go to the funeral home dust a female vamp and then kinda lean towards each other. Buffy spins and leaves, Xander says "Oh no, my life's not complicated."

(represses further Spoldemort arguments boiling up to surface of her brain, desperate to be expressed)

Kassto - I'm sorry if my term offended you. But as I said I didn't mean anyone here (there were plenty of people here, myself included who were very into the Spike-Buffy story), and as you yourself wouldn't classify yourself as a nutter, well then, it really has nothing to do with you, does it?

You have to understand, I've spent over a year hearing Spoldemorts tell me Spike didn't try to rape Buffy, that it wasn't attempted rape, but rather "attempted sex." I have had people post to me that if she'd just relaxed, she would have enjoyed it. And I have had people tell me she's a using bitch, to his good, kind, loving self. Feh. I've received emails from people who were conducting a super-seekrit FAX campaign, to deluge Mutant Enemy, Fox and UPN with messages condemning the series finale, WEEKS BEFORE IT EVER AIRED. I have seen these people harass my friends who run Mutant Enemy writer fansites. I'm sick of them. For a while, they ruined my enjoyment of the character Spike, and that pissed me off, because to me, to the end, he was one of the more interesting reasons to tune in. So, if you're one of those people, well then yeah, I would call you a Spoldemort, but mostly because I'm in love with my new term.

This is rather ironic, because although PM Marcontell (heretofore called "Plei" by me -- who mentioned the shippers who could not be named, which made me think of Voldemort, and hence Spoldemort) and I agree on a lot of things about the show, Spike isn't one of them. Don't get me wrong, she doesn't hate him. She's just tired of him taking over the show and the fandom. I'm actually the one that ended BtVS more interested in both him and his relationship with/feelings for Buffy.

But I still think people who love and admire Spike, and are desperately hoping he and Buffy will get together, but hate her and think she's a using bitch have real issues. Who wants a character they love to get together with a using bitch? That's ridiculous. Not saying that about you, mind you - but I am saying it about Spoldemorts.

...

UTTAD - Yes! Phases. Oooh, I loved that. *sigh* You're just trying to get me to hop back on the Good Ship B/X, aren't you?

Cindy Well it's not like you need a big shove in that direction. :-)

And as you know, you speak for me on all things Spike and Buffy.