the one guy Xander loathes

She coulda slept with Angel.

Actually, would it hurt worse to sleep with someone like Riley that Xander basically boycrushes on?

Actually, would it hurt worse to sleep with someone like Riley that Xander basically boycrushes on?

Good question. I kind of doubt it, though it would ruin the boycrush.

I think part of the hurt and shock Buffy felt was from the casual cruelty of Spike smacking Xander (and, because of the way it was said, her) in the face with "Good enough for Buffy."

I figure maybe the boycrush being damaged is worse -- Xander likes hating Spike. For Anya to make him hate Riley -- that would be evil.

Either one is bad, but in different ways. I'm not sure which is worse.

See, I never hated Buffy, because even when I thought she was acting wrongly, or rashly, or selfishly, I still understood why she was acting the way she did. In other words, I understood her motivation, even when I thought that what she was doing was wrong, wrong, wrong. I never felt that she was out of character, and I felt that the evolution of her character was logical, even when it was extremely painful to watch.

As an example, I felt that her attitude in season 6 made perfect sense--pulled back from bliss into a world filled with pain, and dead mothers, and bills, and sulky shoplifting sisters, and memory-wiping friends, and social workers, and minimum wage....I thought that the emotional numbness and distance and undead-shagging was a logical reaction. Didn't mean that it was fun to watch (it wasn't) or that I didn't want to whack her upside the head and tell her to get over herself (I did. Often.) I understood Buffy. I didn't always agree with her.

Or at least I understood her up until season 7, when I think my brain imploded from trying to always create a logical connection between the characters' pasts, what I thought their motivations were, and their current actions. But I don't blame Buffy (the character) for that. Something went wrong somewhere else. Still trying to figure out where.

ETA: Um, what's a Spoldemort? 'Cause I'm parsing it as Spike/Voldemort, and that's....um....that can't be right.

You don't, when ditched, sleep with your ex-honey's friends until the statute of limitations has run out. It's just not good manners.

Don't agree with this. Firstly, I don't see Anya and Buffy as being particularly close. Secondly, I think its incredibly rich for the dumper to get all righteous at the dumpee, when they know how much hurt they've inflicted, and when they're the one who didn't want the relationship anymore. And I don't think good manners ever entered Buffy's behaviour towards Spike. Why does he get judged by different standards?

I think part of the hurt and shock Buffy felt was from the casual cruelty of Spike smacking Xander (and, because of the way it was said, her) in the face with "Good enough for Buffy."

Interesting how two people can watch a scene and take absolutely the opposite meaning from it. You see this as casual cruelty on Spike's part. I see it as Spike being the victim of yet more ``filthy disgusting thing'' talk from Xander, which he also regularly got from Buffy. And having sex with this filthy thing was such a shameful thing that Buffy would never tell her friends. So Spike, in a state of suicidal despair, and being told once again that although these women want to screw him, he's not worth the dirt under their shoes, just ``outs'' his relationship with Buffy. Fair enough, I say. My God, if the sexes were reversed in this situation, if Spike were a woman (demon or otherwise, good or evil) being treated like this, there would be absolute HELL to pay from people who assume that Spike got all he deserved.

Spike, in a state of suicidal despair

If suicidal despair is an excuse for Spike's behavior in this instance, then the same must apply to Buffy throughout their relationship.

I'm not sure what you mean about "if the sexes were reversed." The abuse seemed pretty mutual to me.

Which is so weird (and I know I've specifically mentioned this to you before, Cin) because WHY THE HELL ARE YOU SHIPPING THEM WHEN YOU DON'T LIKE HER???

Not enough wrod in the world.

Also, I never thought of Buffy being particularly wrathful towards Spike in Entropy. In fact, I thought she pretty much went to save him (even if she would have smacked him around a little if Xander hadn't been trying to kill him). I also thought, his comment about "good enough for Buffy" was far more in defense of Anya than it was an attack. Certainly more than it was an attack on Buffy, IMO.

Also, I never thought of Buffy being particularly wrathful towards Spike in Entropy. In fact, I thought she pretty much went to save him (even if she would have smacked him around a little if Xander hadn't been trying to kill him).

Yep this is where I am exactly. I think seeing them on the monitor stunned and shocked and hurt her, but I don't think she'd have done much about it had Xander not gone to kill him.

I think his "good enough for Buffy" was all those things. It was calling Xander off Anya, it was a dig at Xander, it was letting out his and Buffy's "dirty little secret."

ETA: Um, what's a Spoldemort? 'Cause I'm parsing it as Spike/Voldemort, and that's....um....that can't be right.

I want the answer too!