Tracy: Well-- That call -- That call means you just murdered me. Mal: No, son. You murdered yourself. I just carried the bullet a while.

'The Message'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


brenda m - Jul 19, 2003 10:53:46 pm PDT #3496 of 10001
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

Nothing on that, except that I pretty much agree with PMM and Elena.

Dawn - Another tough call. Maybe duirng "Seeing Red" when she found that Tara and Willow were back together.

What about that period before Joyce was really sick and while she was still kind of crushing on Xander but had Spike hanging with her and telling her bedtime stories.

Buffy - S4 after Hush when she finally had some outside validation, was able to lord it over the Initiative guys (in a nice way), and before Walsh's agenda had become clear.


Elena - Jul 19, 2003 10:57:12 pm PDT #3497 of 10001
Thanks for all the fish.

Joyce - when Buffy's SATs came back and were good and she thought that Faith could take over the slaying and her daughter could go to college and live a normal life.


Typo Boy - Jul 20, 2003 12:59:31 am PDT #3498 of 10001
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

But Jeebus on a pogo stick, don't give me a long, drawn-out, meandering mess of crap because you think you've got a killer punchline.

Yes. This. Better put than what I said and much much shorter.


Gleebo - Jul 20, 2003 3:40:05 am PDT #3499 of 10001
"God...my brilliance is now becoming a bit of a burden...get back to me." Dr. Cox - Scrubs

What was supposed to take place and was changed by Joss in lieu of a huge battle?


ted r - Jul 20, 2003 6:27:30 am PDT #3500 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

I don't think season five onword ever matched the first four

Since I rank season 6 with season's 2 and 3, and like Season 1 least, this doesn't speak for me. Season 7 could have made better use of Giles, but otherwise worked fine for me (but unlike PM I think the Spike arcs of 6-7-and JM-were brilliant).

I should also add now that I have seasons 1-6 on dvd that there are plenty of weak episodes in seasons 2 and 3. In fact, Season 1 aside, I think every season (for me) has about the same number of weak episodes (4 to 6). Which is another thing that makes it increasingly hard for me to rank the seasons-which I prefer to watch now depends more on my mood than any sense of differing quality (1, which will always be the weakest for me, again excepted).


justkim - Jul 20, 2003 6:58:32 am PDT #3501 of 10001
Another social casualty...

Parade Magazine has a brief interview with Alyson Hannigan in today's issue. I'd post a link, but the on-line version isn't complete, or, rather, it's barely summarized. There's a great picture of her in it.


ted r - Jul 20, 2003 7:08:07 am PDT #3502 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

There's a great picture of her in it

Is there another kind of AH?


Frankenbuddha - Jul 20, 2003 9:09:58 am PDT #3503 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

I definitely agree that the idea of the "ARC" took over after season 4. One of the reasons I adore season 4 is, despite what I consider a craptastic arc (and I realize Lindsey Crouse may have to shoulder some of the burden for that), they managed to pull off SO many good episodes. There were a few that were solely "initiatve/Adam" episodes, but even some of those (The Initiative, The "I" in Team) were pretty good.

I guess my biggest reason for denigrating 5 over 6 and 7 is that, great - the villian is a god. Can we make her a little more scary? Or something. If they'd revealed earlier on that she wasn't always Glory, without necessarily revealing who her alter-ego was, it would have gone a long way towards quelling all the "why is she just sitting around doing nothing?" issues.

But then again, I would have made Riley the Glory host, and that she only got free after he pulled his chip out in "Primevil". But that's all part of my season 5 re-vamp that I've been working on.

Seriously, though - even the devout Riley-haters among you would have found the HSQ ten times higher if Giles had killed Riley instead of Ben. I doubt he would have tried to sacrafice Dawn the way Ben did, but that would have made it more tragic. I suspect Riley probably would have begged Giles to finish it because Buffy definitely couldn't have.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 20, 2003 10:42:32 am PDT #3504 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

Is there another kind of AH?

There was that one magazine shot (FHM?) that made her look like the Joker a few years ago. But generally, pretty photogenic.


Jeff Mejia - Jul 20, 2003 12:02:13 pm PDT #3505 of 10001
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

Cordelia: When she shows up at the prom in the dress Xander bought for her, I think. It's certainly her most hopeful and dignified moment.

This is good, but I think the situation of impending poverty and lack of college options makes this bittersweet at best. (Of course, most of the moments are like that in the ME universe). Somone upthread mentioned that Cordelia really didn't have that many happy moments in her life. Maybe when she was elected May Queen in "Out of Mind, Out of Sight".

Giles: At the end of Checkpoint. His little girl had grown up, and he'd made his point.

I thought about this initally, but the moment had to be fleeting (again), since the fact that they were going up against a god would have put Giles' into "worry" mode pretty quickly. Although by that time, I think Giles had a pretty strong belief in Buffy's ability to overcome any obstacle. At the beginning of "Spiral", when Buffy and Dawn showed up after running away from Glory, I think Giles said "I knew you could beat her" or words to that effect (I'm too lazy to look up the exact words today).

And if she's wrong, the world ends and so does Dawn.

(re: Buffy diving off the tower) Dawn was still there and could jump if Buffy wasn't successful, so it wasn't a risk in that fashion. I still believe that her Slayer Intuition gave her the clarity to realize her course of action would work.

Joyce - when Buffy's SATs came back and were good and she thought that Faith could take over the slaying and her daughter could go to college and live a normal life.

Yes, this. This is good. The perfect moment for Joyce. (I never counted "Band Candy" moments for either Joyce or Giles because those were drug-induced.)