Book: Afraid I might be needing a preacher. Mal: That's good. You lie there and be ironical.

'Safe'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Jeff Mejia - Jun 22, 2003 12:10:18 pm PDT #2992 of 10001
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

And the only reading I can take from that scene, as much as I love Oz, is that he was choosing hairy-gorilla sex with a girl he didn't even like over Willow.

I actually think Oz was doing the traditional Scooby action of not mentioning the problem to anybody while he tried to work it out himself. His motives for doing so are obviously complex (hence all the posts), but his isolation is traditonal when it comes to our heroes.


Matt the Bruins fan - Jun 22, 2003 12:26:58 pm PDT #2993 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

So much left unsaid.

To me, that's pretty much Oz in a nutshell.


Holli - Jun 22, 2003 12:28:01 pm PDT #2994 of 10001
an overblown libretto and a sumptuous score/ could never contain the contradictions I adore

When Oz first found out he was a werewolf, he tried to keep it a secret, didn't he? Back in "Phases," he seemed pretty nervous when Xander was talking about knowing who the werewolf must be, inasmuch as Oz ever seems nervous. And Willow wouldn't have found out at all if she hadn't come over when he had the chains out.

So I guess it's not surprising that he kept wolf-related things to himself later on. Just kinda disappointing, because otherwise he was pretty damn perfect.


§ ita § - Jun 22, 2003 12:37:45 pm PDT #2995 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

If Veruca wasn't a werewolf he wouldn't have strayed.

And?

Would he have boffed any werewolf that walked by? I never got that impression. Then it's not a lycanthropic compulsion.

No one's going to be unfaithful unless there's someone they want to boff.


§ ita § - Jun 22, 2003 3:09:31 pm PDT #2996 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Has this article, The Buffy Paradigm Revisited been linked to?

I seem to remember at least one of the articles it refers to, but not it itself.

I didn't like it. I think it was wrong about the show itself (hi tech worked against The Judge just fine), power doesn't always corrupt (hey, Buffy's done okay), and all of the characters do not feel called to their work.

So I cannot care about her conclusions.


Leigh - Jun 22, 2003 3:38:17 pm PDT #2997 of 10001
Nobody

I actually think Oz was doing the traditional Scooby action of not mentioning the problem to anybody while he tried to work it out himself. His motives for doing so are obviously complex (hence all the posts), but his isolation is traditonal when it comes to our heroes.

Oh, I agree it's a Scooby tradition and that Oz's reasons for what he did are a big complicated mess, but there was still a choice, and it is most certainly one in which he valued his wolfish connection to Veruca, and the potential experiences possible because of that, over his relationship with Willow.


HoyaSaxa - Jun 22, 2003 4:06:18 pm PDT #2998 of 10001
Diablo Robotico Up.

"The only flimsy reason I have for thinking that they had consumated things is that Giles is not surprised in "Passion" when he believes that she let herself into his house and decorated it quite romantically and elaborately."

By the way, Passion is one of my favorite episodes in the series. Jenny's untimely demise represented the precise and simultaneous intersection of many Jossian plot devices -- sadness, fear, love, hate, anger, vengeance, surprise, responsibility and foreshadowing. After Jenny fell, Giles was willing to do what Buffy had been hesitating to do since Angel had turned -- exterminate the beast. That was some great stuff, the flaming baseball bat.

Passion was a pivotal chapter in the series. I still see S2 as the tale about the folly and the redemption of Buffy herself, personified by the danger she put Jenny in by not slaying Angelus when she had her first chance. A story like that has to be told early in a series, because it was a maturing phase for the Slayer. Not that she was all grown up after the Angelus arc, but she took one big step forward in understanding not only her power, but her responsibility.


askye - Jun 22, 2003 4:43:32 pm PDT #2999 of 10001
Thrive to spite them

Hoya---you can quote blocks of text by putting a ">" and a space before the first line.


Maysa - Jun 22, 2003 7:09:53 pm PDT #3000 of 10001

By the way, Passion is one of my favorite episodes in the series. Jenny's untimely demise represented the precise and simultaneous intersection of many Jossian plot devices -- sadness, fear, love, hate, anger, vengeance, surprise, responsibility and foreshadowing.

What I love most about "Passion" is that every time (every time!) I watch it, I always find myself shouting, "Run, Jenny!" I'm always hoping she'll get away from him and she never ever does.


ted r - Jun 22, 2003 7:19:08 pm PDT #3001 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

Am I allowed to forgive both Oz and Willow? I mean, they each broke one another's hearts, but they both had reasons that I found understandable, and well, people (and witches and werewolves) make mistakes where sex and love and devouring people three nights a month are concerned.