Spike: Taking up smoking, are you? Harmony: I am a villain, Spike. Hello!

Spike/Harm ,'Help'


Buffy 4: Grr. Arrgh.  

This is where we talk about Buffy the Vampire Slayer! No spoilers though?if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it. This thread is NO LONGER NAFDA. Please don't discuss current Angel events here.


Aims - May 14, 2003 8:37:53 pm PDT #274 of 10001
Shit's all sorts of different now.

I'm gonna watch it if'n I can get the boys to stop fighting by then.


ZeusGirl - May 14, 2003 8:38:32 pm PDT #275 of 10001
"Angel and Spike, The Starsky and Hutch of the Netherworld" - Albert Einstein in his speech to the U.N. Security Council, Sept., 1955.

Yes, yes, yes. Much Spike love. Much talk about Spike always being different from other vampires. That some part of his soul always remained. He mentions the Judge saying, "You reek of humanity."


ZeusGirl - May 14, 2003 8:39:10 pm PDT #276 of 10001
"Angel and Spike, The Starsky and Hutch of the Netherworld" - Albert Einstein in his speech to the U.N. Security Council, Sept., 1955.

Excuse me, from the interview Allyson linked above.


ted r - May 14, 2003 8:39:26 pm PDT #277 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

Frankly, I'm in a nostalgic, sentimental mood now, and not inclined to be critical.

Nothing wrong with that. But with Angel continuing I'm feeling much less depressed than I would otherwise. Buffy may be gone, but the Buffyverse continues.


Cashmere - May 14, 2003 8:51:03 pm PDT #278 of 10001
Now tagless for your comfort.

Anyway, I don't think that the last two seasons of Buffy have been .good writing because I think that they have been unsubtle, .unclever, untrue to previously-established characterizations, .and emotionally overwrought. Occasional episodes .have risen above this general assessment, but the strength .of the previous seasons in meeting these literary norms has .made these last two a constant source of disappointment for me.

would it be wrong of me to want to marry hayden at this point? This has summed up the problems I've had with the show. I still love it...but there is disappointment...much like my family.


ted r - May 14, 2003 9:03:17 pm PDT #279 of 10001
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

would it be wrong of me to want to marry hayden at this point?

As long as I don't have to buy a wedding gift. :)


Wenda - May 14, 2003 9:12:32 pm PDT #280 of 10001
"I'm a mouse with a piece of string, Bear. The possibilities are endless." - Tutter

Re Spike and SDT re his redemption:

I think one of the key episodes that showed Spike's redemption was Sleeper. When he called Buffy to tell her what he had done, he was simply taking responsibility for it and trying to fix it. And he expected her to stake him.


Jeff Mejia - May 14, 2003 9:27:16 pm PDT #281 of 10001
"Don't think of yourself as an organic pain collector racing towards oblivion." Dogbert to Dilbert

Skipping ahead to see if anyone watched the A & E Biography tonight?

I saw it too! I thought it was a pretty entertaining summation of the show. As others have said, not much new information, but I am in the nostalgic mood as well (especially after watching "The Prom"), so I was pleased. Plus, since it was on A&E, my Mom actually watched it and caught a bit of what all the hubub was about.

every time I hear that music from "The Gift" I get sniffly


Frankenbuddha - May 14, 2003 10:29:56 pm PDT #282 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

It's been a while since I saw Sleeper, but thanks Wenda, yes.

I remember his reaction to what went down at the Bronze, and I remember him asking Buffy to stake him, but I didn't remember that he'd actually called her to fess up.

I also remember him volunteering to leave town. I remember Buffy stopped him, but I never read that as a "love" thing on her part, at least not one she was sure of. As far as Buffy has been concerned, I don't think she's ever known, or been portrayed to know, exactly how she feels about Spike (since he got a sou), no matter what she says to anyone else about it. Which I think is legitimate, given their whole history (I mean, does Seeing Red automatically counterdict what happened in Intervention? I don't know, and I get the feeling that's how we're supposed to read it - and by "it" I mean the whole tangled history).

Anyway, it's late - I need to get to bed.


Maysa - May 14, 2003 10:34:37 pm PDT #283 of 10001

I know everybody is probably sick of this topic by now but to use another good example of showing not telling from the season finale of Angel

In Home, the scene between Connor and Angel in the mall could be regarded as telling. Angel tells Connor he loves him. Connor finally tells Angel "You let him get me." This is telling, right? Except that it's not. Why not? Because for about 22 episodes previous to this scene neither Angel nor Connor has discussed any of these issues; all we've seen is Connor's anger and Angel's regret in practically every interaction that they've had. Virtually nothing was spoken. So when the telling comes (in beautifully natural dialogue) it's not actually telling. It's the cathartic resolution to everything we've been shown. Everything that's been under the surface. Buffy hasn't done this lately.