I said last night at Deb's, "You know, the show really could have ended at S5 and I'd have been satisfied."

Deb reminded me that you'd have to tack on OMWF, which is true.

Deb reminded me that you'd have to tack on OMWF, which is true.

Oh, there's a lot I'm glad it stuck around for: CwDP, Selfless, After Life, Storyteller, the cool Tara/Spike banter in OaFA. Clem in general.

I'm glad the show's ended, but--as one of the recent articles pointed out--that's not the same thing as wanting it gone. And the kicker is, I DO want to know what happens next. I want to know where they all end up, what Faith does to keep out of jail, if Andrew does something worthwhile with his life, if Buffy becomes a fireman. If they run out of gas in the desert and Angel has to send Gunn and Wesley with a few extra tanks to get them to civilization. There are many, many stories left to be told, but I think this one is definitely finished.

Yup. Two obvious bad-writing loose ends are "Why did Giles act like a jerk after he nearly died (and how did he survive?)" and "What was with Dead!Joyce?" She was clearly the First Evil. I think.

I was fanwanking that they needed to make Giles a jerk so it would be easier for Buffy to reject his authority.

I found the show to be very emotionally satisfying as well.

a school bus outside an abandoned school, an obvious symbol of the fundamental emptiness of sex with a dead man.

May I tag? Or would it be too spoilery?

Oh, and since we're playing:

3, 2, 6, 1, 4, 7, 5

There are many, many stories left to be told, but I think this one is definitely finished.

That's it. He set the myth free. Giles and Willow and Xander and Buffy will all go off and do wonderful things, but they aren't bound to the wheel of Fate any more. I like that.

I am not personally offended, Wenda, But I think you are being absolutist in a way that closes you off to great humanity and grace here. Spike needed to just snuggle with Buffy for his OWN needs. He needed to be close to her in a supportive healthy way to come to terms with the AR for himself, for his own closure. For Buffy to decide for him what was best would have denied him his chance at generosity and grace.

If one follows your logic to its conclusion, it is "using" to ask anyone who cares about you for ANYTHING, since you may not be able to give the exact same amount back to them.

Scrappy, can you expand on "needs a third act"? I tried, but I was talking out my hat. (A nice straw fedora.)

The loveliness of the finale for me is that it nullified the idea of season 8, without invalidating seasons 1 through 7.

Connie, as a woman who has never felt disempowered either, I though the premise lovely because, dammit, not all women are as pigheadedlucky as I've been, and it's just one of those moments that will always get me, no specific gender required, where from either inside or symbolically from outside, one finds the strength to do what one couldn't before.

Automatic crypoint.

That's why I thought there was no sex, too. I think his t-shirt was even tucked in.

I believe the padlock on his jeans was also still intact.

So there was really a scene with Wooden Robin and the Gilesbot sharing a joint? Definitely would have liked to have seen a shot on the bus with Giles shotgunning the rest of the doobie to Wood in order to keep him alive.

"Inhale, man. Dammit, inhale."

I have what I think is an idiotic question, but here goes. What did the FE want? I'm really having a hard time figuring out what the goal was for the FE. To wipe out the slayer line? Because after seeing the baseball girl etc, it just seems like it wouldn't have ever worked.