But while I agree that "like" and "dislike" are completely and utterly subjective, and matters of personal taste, "show" and "tell" are much, much less so.

Asserting that is not the same as proving it.

They are actually sort of quantifiable, and this season, this ending arc in particular, is all about the telling, with almost no showing. If you like, that's fine. Just don't tell me I've been shown something when I haven't.

Well frankly, given your tone, I can only reply I'll tell you any damn thing I please (short of being kicked off by the Buffista PTB)-without, naturally, expecting you to agree.

For an excellent example of Good Television, watch the last few episodes of 24. Or the whole damn season. But definitely last night's episode. I was literally on the edge of my seat. The entire time.

I've been watching 24 all season because Joanne likes it. I think it is well acted, wonderfully directed, has a great central concept-and is basically entirely disposable junk food. I could never imagine wanting to see a single episode a second time. This season's Buffy episodes are over before I notice, while I find myself watching the 24 clock tick slowly away. 24 (imo) is to Buffy as The Terminator is to King Lear-there is certainly more action and "showing not telling" in the former, but for me that doesn't translate into more exciting or enjoyable.

As for speeches this season, a couple of them by Buffy fell flat for me, (but were redeemed by Andrew's making fun of them) but others (Spike in Beneath You, Xander in Potential to pick just two examples) are among the high points of the series-again, for me.

I don't expect those who disagree to change their minds. I'm not changing mine either-and I'm pretty sure I'm not entirely alone.

Another example of how subjective this all is-TV Guide rates the Buffy Big Bads, and the Mayor comes in next to last (only Adam was rated worse).

like" and "dislike" are completely and utterly subjective, and matters of personal taste, "show" and "tell" are much, much less so.

Asserting that is not the same as proving it.

Okay. When, in Shadow, Buffy was in a battle with a Thing and Spike threw her a knife but stayed out of the fight, that was showing.

When, in the episode where Riley left [Into The Woods], Xander made a big speech to Buffy about what a great guy Riley was, that was telling.

Care to refute either of those?

I'm not saying 24 is a better show then BtVS. I'm saying the last few 24s have been more enjoyable to watch, then Buffy has. The Tony/Michelle relationship has been very showy not telly. And each scene has increased the tension of the show just a little bit (with the exception of Kim who has been mercifully absent for most of the last bunch of episodes.) After the last episode I was really hoping that there'd be more than one episode left this season. After the last few Buffys, I honestly just can't wait for it to be over.

I have only one ...... that the Buffy/Angel kiss appeared to me to be only one of old friends re-uniting.

In that case, I seriously need some new old friends.

Hell, those of us who feel told instead of shown are not the only ones.

From TWOP:

On a dark street, a family packs their car by battery-powered lanterns. Y'know, Sep addressed this last week and I barely have the energy to care, but this whole "citizens flee Sunnydale" plot is beyond lame. It's so far beyond lame that it's the Lame at the End of the Universe. Not the concept so much, but the execution. Oh, sure, ME is doing a little more showing now. Showing us the people leaving rather than just telling us it's happening. But the threat? The motivation? The source of the mass panic? We're still being told. We haven't seen a single second of it. We've seen a villain -- the villain to end all villains, supposedly, the Source of All Evil -- that has all its energy focused on a handful of people in a single house. And we're told that somehow this translates to Sunnydale being emptied of its residents, yet we see NOTHING. Fuckin' lame. Lame lame lame lame. I just can't…I can't even express how disappointed I am in Joss Whedon and his crew here. I don't have the words (and believe me, that doesn't happen often). Anyway, we see Buffy walk by this fleeing family, her sad arms clutched around her tiny, emaciated torso, her tiny brow crumpled over her empty, soulless eyes, her lower lip pouting and quivering. I remain unmoved.

Dana, that's no friend. That's a freak.

No, she's good people. You met her in Toronto. She's just...a little weird. Like, she doesn't eat eggs.

Okay. When, in Shadow, Buffy was in a battle with a Thing and Spike threw her a knife but stayed out of the fight, that was showing. When, in the episode where Riley left [Into The Woods], Xander made a big speech to Buffy about what a great guy Riley was, that was telling. Care to refute either of those?

Sure. If by telling you mean "speaking" and showing you mean "not speaking" you are obviously correct, but that seems a not very useful tautology. Speaking, after all, is an activity the same as knife throwing. But I assume that isn't what you mean. In which case I would argue Xander's speech (which I still remember) was more dramatic and effective storytelling than the knife throwing (which I'd completely forgot). Obviously ymmv-but then that is my point.

Like, she doesn't eat eggs.

Oh. I forgive the no Monty Python thing, then, because that can be resolved. But us egg-avoiders are few and to be cherished.

I agree with Ted's criterion of rewatching. I don't think this season will ever have me as hungry as S2 (but, really, what can?), but I would never ever consider watching any 24 episode twice, other than the final ep of last season, and that was a personal thing. I don't watch much twice, but this season, with the Torrenting, I've watched early, and then watched on time without hesitating.

ted, I think you either disagree with the showing not telling philosophy of good television, or you don't understand it. If it's the former, you're entitled to your opinion. If it's the latter then feel free to join me in my corner since I don't get it 100% either. But I wouldn't argue with the mechanics of that philosophy. Obviously a knife throwing is a showing, while a speech is a telling.

Sure. If by telling you mean "speaking" and showing you mean "not speaking" you are obviously correct, but that seems a not very useful tautology. Speaking, after all, is an activity the same as knife throwing. But I assume that isn't what you mean. In which case I would argue Xander's speech (which I still remember) was more dramatic and effective storytelling than the knife throwing (which I'd completely forgot). Obviously ymmv-but then that is my point.

Ted, I feel like you're deliberately misunderstanding.

Spike throwing the knife *showed* something about his feelings for Buffy, his understanding of her, etc.

Xander's speech was about *Riley.* We learned about Riley from someone else talking about him.

We learned about Spike from something he *himself* did.

We learned about Riley (maybe) from something someone else said.

That's the difference between showing and telling.

I'm not saying 24 is a better show then BtVS. I'm saying the last few 24s have been more enjoyable to watch, then Buffy has.

For you. And that's fine. Not, however for me. Is one of us "wrong?" Not in any proveable sense. At most you could appeal for majority rule and take a vote among all Buffy fans, but if we are arguing popularity equals quality than Survivor is a much better show than BTVS ever was.