Ple is surprisingly lucid, however.

T minus 2 minutes, the whisky hits, and lucid don't mean fuck-all.

I want to make one thing clear here before the blessed numbness of the alcohol hits my system: no matter how I feel about someone personally, like or dislike, my positions in THIS THREAD are motivated by my concern for the health of the board as a whole. Always have been, always will be.

What *I* think might be best might not be what you (general you) think is best, might not even, in the end, be what *is* best. Hell, sometimes, it's not even what I want, but it's what *I* believe is best.

Me, I can't speak to people feeling unwelcome or alienated, because I personally have dealt with that by retreating. Threads change, tone changes--mutable, all of it. Sometimes, things change in ways that make me rethink if I should be there. Bitches, well, I miss the people, but not the thread, if that makes sense. It got to be too much for me, so I left, not without regret.

These things happen, like it or not. Ain't no stoppin' change, not really. Even if you want to.

I feel the need to point out - just for clarity's sake - that Rafmun is a real person. He is not a sock puppet.

You can believe me or not, as is your right.

What happens when it's a long-time poster who feels like this? Isn't the fact that they feel this way something that may need to be addressed in terms of board dynamics?

Exactly.

And for all the talk of "my point" being about some 'cabal' - that is wrong. Trudy and I both clearly pointed out that that wasn't the case. It was unorganized meanness that was (and is) the problem.

Karl - excellent post, and most than a few kernels of wisdom. Thank you for cautioning and considering with actual insight. Fwiw, the post that trouble you was the post/moment where I caved/gave up/succumbed to the deluge, and went, for lack of a more clinical term - starkers. I had hoped the *tone* of zany-gleeness might convey that a bit. That said, the characterization/paraphrazing done there still seems accurate in the hard light of the next day.

'Sit back, play nice, you'll fit in eventually' is great advice - were it on point. The problem is that too many long-termers feel alienated. So bitch-slapping a newbie with promises of future fit-in-ingness is not the answer, when the problem being highlighted is not dependent on newness.

bitch-slapping a newbie with promises of future fit-in-ingness

Is that in any way related to what I wrote? I believe I suggested that you meet people half-way.

In the spirit of Elena's suggestion that one ask for clarification before going off half-cocked, I am asking you to clarify just what the cited sentence fragment is a response to.

Edited on thread-reread: This appears to be in response to Wolfram's suggestion that Rafmun take some time in the other threads. But it sure didn't read like 'bitch-slapping' to me. And to be honest, the inflammatory rhetoric is beginning to wear on me. I welcome alternative interpretations, especially ones that lead me away from further inflammation.

Flashback to Monday - 800 posts ago. Beej - remember her? I contacted her yesterday, Um, supported her in email, yep. I wanted to get her reaction to the Bureacracy discussion about her, so I sent her the link. She gave me permission to post her reaction here. I decided instead to put it on an offsite page. Cause, it's Beej, you know - lots of words.

Quick Q&A:
Is she coming back? No.
How did she take the criticism? Pretty well, I'd say. She accepts that she just doesn't fit here.
Am I gonna track down every person that leaves the board in a huff from now on, and invite them back? God, I hope not. This had better be the exception.

If you've had enough of Beej, or are content with her last post here being her last word, then move on. Nothing more to see here.

If you're interested in reading our conversation, it's here. I've made a few edits to both my e-mails and her responses.

If you think I'm foolish, have misrepresented the board, or just want to rip me a new one over this, feel free. Profile addy is good if you want to keep it out of Bureau.

>bitch-slapping a newbie with promises of future fit-in-ingness

Is that in any way related to what I wrote? I believe I suggested that you meet people half-way.

Wasn't in response to you. I liked what you wrote a great deal - even the parts critical of my style and going-to-far-edness.

[Edited to delete continued discussion of moot points.]

Thanks for posting that bicyclops.

She accepts that she just doesn't fit here.

I think that sums it up. I'm not convinced we did anything wrong.

bicyclops, thanks for posting that.

How could I like posting here in any form if I really hated David, Plei and ita,

I have a point here, and it kind of relates to tone. For a long time I was absolutely convinced ita hated me, because it seemed to me like she challenged everything I said in an abrasive way. And it was a factor when I decided to cut waaaay back on the time I spent here a few years back.

I finally figured out that she pretty much challenges everyone in about the same tone, but it took me a while to get there.

(And ita, if you do hate me, please don't let me know, for that would make me cry. Thank you.)

And I agree that there is tone online, and also that it's better to ask "I'm sorry, did you mean _____?" before assuming someone meant _______.

Wasn't in response to you.

Ah, good to see that it was just my late-night crack smoking. Sorry for the feather-ruffling.

Wasn't in response to you.

Who was it in response to?