I explicitly stated the tone I intend my post(s) to have at the outset, and I will keep everyone updated when I want that to change.

If your case is to get everyone to be nicer to other members of the board?

This is not helping it. IJS.

Please don't negate the efforts of those of us who are attempting to look at the merits of your posts by getting snotty. And yes, tone comes from both ends -- writer and reader. Dana isn't over-sensitive, and neither am I.

> I also think a Newbie might come away with the assumption that there are some posters who are annoyed at and/or are holding grudges at other posters.

Yup

And again - if you don't like it, or think it valueless, than feel free to ignore.

Actually, I don't want to ignore it. I want to engage it, because I think your position is wrong. That is how debate and discussion happens, and does not mean that an opposing view point is trying to change the subject.

there is a whole other small, agressive, assertive, verbose group that is cross examining my cred rather than discussing my points - calling the newbie cheeky (this is. A. Bad thing. Here?), taking offense, suggesting my notions are descending into hyperbole, that my ideas 'suck', being defensive, suggesting there is no problem etc

Yes, those are the people who disagree with you or don't see your point, or think it is about some specific instances and want to talk about them as specifics. It happens (and please note, I an NOT saying JUST deal, I am saying it's a reality, not making a value judgement on it one way or the other).

I am gonna assume I am not one of them, I am still aggressive and assertive and verbose. I have posted almost exclusively in here today and I have ASSCAPPED more than once.

People are addressing the people you call this "small group". Here's the thing though, some people are gonna continue to disagree with you. Should they stop posting?

I don't think anyone said your ideas suck, either -- I think they characterized your posts as saying we suck.

I'm mostly gonna stay in the background on this one, but I wanted to point out to Rafmun that nobody is saying that his ideas suck. What I assume you're referring to is Steph's paraphrasing of your posts, which she boiled down to (paraphrasing once more) "these bad things are happening, and that sucks."

Edit: x-post with Jesse

Please don't negate the efforts of those of us who are attempting to look at the merits of your posts by getting snotty. And yes, tone comes from both ends -- writer and reader. Dana isn't over-sensitive, and neither am I.

You're absolutely right about both sides bringing something to tone. However, I stated up front what I was bringing, so I'm confused.

I don't know what tone you're reading into my posts, but it honestly is simply intended to be an academic observation style tone, and if I want to switch to snotty, I'll be real clear about that. Seriously, and no bullsh*t.

A series of posters attempting to explain to me what debate is, on the other hand, could be seen by some as leaning toward condescention.

Anyway, original point sufficiently burried now as to have become mostly moot.

Don't know if that proves my point, or invalidates it. Or both. But I'm going out for coffee. Feel free to continue to argue, oggle, fondle, or debate among yourselves.

The Good Old Days. I miss them, too. Dana and I don't filk any more (I can hear you all breathing sighs of relief.) We don't see outbursts like the Spoiler Prayer. It's not as playful.

But then I look at the last few years. The American economy has been depressed, or in a "jobless recovery". There's a war on. On a personal note, many of us are out of work or underemployed. We've had several major illnesses, at least one divorce, and in general a whole shitload of unhappiness.

If the tone of the board has changed, I think a lot of it has to do with exhaustion. I know I'm snappish lately, just because I'm too tired to cope, and I think I'm not the only one. I'd like the old joy back, but I can't will it into existence.

I wish us all better days.

Unburdened by the politics

and

though informed by discussions with long-termers

These strike me as somewhat contradictory. If you've been reading for months and have ongoing relationships with long-term members of the board, you are in no way unburdened by politics. No one could be.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that no one member's experience of the board can be construed as representative of any other member's experience, or of the board as a whole. This board is simply too large, the threads move too fast, for anyone to be able to say authoritatively that X is happening boardwide.

That doesn't negate the validity of any one member's experience, but it makes it very difficult to identify any sort of board-wide problem. When I'm busy, I spend my time in Lit, Fic, and Boxed Set. I'm completely oblivious to the big tussles and kerfuffles going on in Kafka, Natter, and Bitches. To me, everything's rosy. That's a valid experience, even if not a comprehensive one.

Just something to consider, okay?

Oh lord, that was a lot of catching up to do.

Rafmun, you came into this thread and stated that there was a small group of selfish and agressive posters that were running this board and forcing people to leave. No matter who made that statement, or how long they'd been posting, there would have been a strong outcry for proof or examples. Especially when you say that you're basing your position on the thoughts and feelings of other people who won't speak up. It really is, "the lurkers support me in email," which could be entirely true but is not a statement that is ever going to be conducive to a productive conversation.

Would the ensuing discussion have been different in tone had it been started by a poster who had been here longer? I'm not entirely sure. Essentially, you dropped a bomb and people reacted. I honestly don't think this is a case where it has anything to do with being a "newbie".