I don't give a good gorram about relevant, Wash. Or objective. And I ain't so afraid of losing something that I ain't gonna try to have it. You and I would make one beautiful baby. And I want to meet that child one day. Period.

Zoe ,'Heart Of Gold'


Bureaucracy 2: Like Sartre, Only Longer  

A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.

Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych


Allyson - Mar 30, 2004 7:56:10 am PST #7925 of 10005
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

But overshadowing the majority of posters is a very small group of activist posters who make it their business to involve themselves in most issues.

Cue doomsday music.

Bless the activists. For without them, there would be no Phoenix. Activists make it possible for the other 99% to have a board. Alternately, without that 99%, there's be no discussions. Just a lot of thread titles, maintenance, good ideas, and no discussions.

These posters are currently directing the direction of the board by sheer pressure of persistence.

Not seeing the negative here, though I'm not sure that you're saying that it is. When people care deeply about an issue, they'll argue their side mercilessly. Or maybe that's just me. Or a few of us. If there's a heated debate, it's because several sides are arguing their viewpoint, no one here, I think, comes in here screaming at the moon until a Stompy walks by and says, "well, if you're going to stand around screaming all by yourself, you must be right. I'll just change the font to Courier.

It seems from an outside perspective that it has become more important to a small minority of posters to impose their feelings on the board than make the board better for the group.

I think Buffistas exists to state feelings and thoughts, and it's no imposition.

There seems little question that this situation has alienated - at least to some degree - both newbies and long-termers. Some newbies simply leave while others accept the artificial hierarchy of culture. Some veteran posters have been marginalized and driven away from posting by this same situation.

Zoe? Caroma? John H? Beej? No one is driven away, not really. One can hold ground and exist, here, if one wants. Unless banned. And then, well, you're fucked.

I don't think there's anything artificial about heirarchy, here or in any other community. There are hierarchies. And that's a good thing. We're a co-op, not a commune. And in order to co-operate, someone has to take charge of situations. It is usually the same few, but really, if you look at the lives of those people, they take charge in other situations. That's who they are. Those people can't take charge without being allowed to, or in most cases, asked to by the will of people that want to get something done, but aren't content in leadership or advocacy roles. This doesn't make leaders more, or less.

Others simply go on with their posting, but have given up trying to offer constructive input because they don't wish the long and largely fruitless debate to follow.

The Phoenix is fruit of long debate. And giving up? Must not have cared that much to begin with. If someone cares deeply, why give up? Since we vote, well, no one has to even take part in a debate if they don't want to. They can just go vote their mind. If teh lurkers are all supporting each other in email, it doesn't really matter how loud and long I argue, does it?

In the interest of total sincerity, I will acknowledge that it is also offered with the smallest hope that it may play a wee part in the effort to bring out or bring back input from that 'silent majority' who are still around, and who were instrumental in making this one of the strongest, most enlightened, accepting, tolerant and tightest knit communities anywhere on the web.

Are their secret meetings of which I'm unaware? It would seem that most of the people who built the board, are still here and active within it.

Am I on crack?


Jesse - Mar 30, 2004 7:57:00 am PST #7926 of 10005
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

You know what, there ARE people who are more softspoken and there is nothing wrong with trying to take their wishes into account.

But that's clearly impossible. I imagine that all the people who aren't commenting agree with me, because I'm so obviously right.


Trudy Booth - Mar 30, 2004 7:58:46 am PST #7927 of 10005
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Bless the activists. For without them, there would be no Phoenix. Activists make it possible for the other 99% to have a board.

No, that would be the programmers. And not every one of them is interested in running the place.


Allyson - Mar 30, 2004 8:00:44 am PST #7928 of 10005
Wait, is this real-world child support, where the money goes to buy food for the kids, or MRA fantasyland child support where the women just buy Ferraris and cocaine? -Jessica

No, that would be the programmers.

I'm not talking just about code there Trudy. Jesse handles the money, and that's a very active part of making the board work, as one example.


Sean K - Mar 30, 2004 8:01:04 am PST #7929 of 10005
You can't leave me to my own devices; my devices are Nap and Eat. -Zenkitty

Am I on crack?

More importantly, are you on the good crack, and did you bring enough to share?


Lyra Jane - Mar 30, 2004 8:03:55 am PST #7930 of 10005
Up with the sun

No, that would be the programmers.
The programmers make the physical (odd word, that) structure of the board exist and work, so the rest of us don't have to think about it. Without them, we would be on WorldCrossing or something else vastly inferior.

The activists keep the social gears grinding away. Without them, we might well have had more infighting and flame wars and skullduggery of all sorts.

The programmers make us work; the activists help keep us a community. We need both. It's an "if we build it, will they come?" problem.


Trudy Booth - Mar 30, 2004 8:04:14 am PST #7931 of 10005
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

Fine, the programmers and our illustrious (and I'm not kididng there at all) treasurer.

They aren't the "Activists" Numfar is talking about. THEY are the reason the board is here.


Wolfram - Mar 30, 2004 8:04:14 am PST #7932 of 10005
Visilurking

Sorry Laistas, only DC's got the good crack.


DavidS - Mar 30, 2004 8:05:15 am PST #7933 of 10005
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

No, that would be the programmers. And not every one of them is interested in running the place.

The programmers created the software - but the community, and its rules were the creation of people who bothered to do the work in the right hand threads. Also, way back in WX, the community had a lot of input into what the programmers executed. The design and layout, the quick loading, the text emphasis - all came out of our old bullshit consensus. As Allyson noted, the people who cared about it the most were willing to wade through the often hot debates about voting and majorities, disciplinary issues and thread proliferation.

If you don't want to do that work, you really can't write it off as being "softspoken."


Trudy Booth - Mar 30, 2004 8:08:20 am PST #7934 of 10005
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

We have lost good, active, people because this board is not as comfortable as it once was. It's more confrontational, we have to vent every little damn thing, "scroll by" and "let it slide" seem to happen less and less.