Tone is WAY more than vocal inflection. From how incredibly articulate we all are, that should be obvious.

For example, I could consider this to be an obvious shot at me.

I suppose you could. And if you did, you could smack me down, ask me to clarify, bitch about me backchannel, ignore me, or some combination thereof. Makes no nevermind to me.

If anyone misunderstands anything at all I post, they are free to take any of the above steps.

I, however, think that I am eminently clear. And I pull no punches. If I mean to make an obvious shot, I'll make an obvious shot, directed at a specific person. It won't be veiled in an explanation of some other topic.

Steph's a BIG slut.

this is why I had not posted the comment back then, and I really hesitated about posting it now. I don't have a solid example to cite.

Gotcha.

I understand that it's hard to come up with post numbers on demand. But do you mean that we're nasty to newbies, or that we make too big a deal out of greeting them (which can be almost as intimidating as being shouted at), or that we just somehow Treat Them Differently?

I expect I should probably apologize for starting the kerfuffle, since I was the one who slapped down beej last night.

I don't think so, Consuela. Your response was measured and non-inflammatory - which has always been your way with people who step over the line.

I don't think this discussion is necessarily going to be resolved with a need for any particular action (though I do think guacamole is a useful notion in the FAQ).

I think I'm particularly sensitive to this issue because I'm spending a lot of time coaching a bunch of 7 y.o.'s how to play baseball. They're anxious and they wince when they screw up and they get hurt easily. And, of course, new folks aren't little kids - they're adults. But I think the principles of teaching/training apply.

Newbies like carrots. Not sticks. Sometimes they get sticks anyway. Allyson's not going to waste any carrots on newbies and that's fine. But, for myself, I think bothering to bring people into the culture is a community responsibility. It doesn't have to be sink or swim here. It can be whatever we make it.

Steph's a BIG slut.

You betcha, baby. It was all planned on my part.

I'll just point out, again, that I don't think it was a shot (so if it was, you need to try harder (which is a joke)).

I, however, think that I am eminently clear.

Yes. And so do I think that I am eminently clear. That doesn't make it any easier for, say, PMM to understand my meaning without asking for more clarification.

Though at this point I'm no longer sure if we're even discussing the same point.

You betcha, baby. It was all planned on my part.

Race ya to 8's.

I'm going to make a bold (and possible flamibaity - but not meaning to) suggestion.

For over a year, off and on, we have had this discussion ad nauseum. And the same people say the same things in regards to newbies/smackdowns/etc.

Some of us will be always think "Sink or swim", some of us will give the benefit of the doubt, some of us will err on the side of caution and patience. All are wonderful and representative of the diversity in our personalities and our beliefs, which is one of the things that we can all agree that we love about this place.

There will be newbies who jump in and make the place their own and are welcome, there will be some who stutter about and then are fine and stay. There will always be people that don't belong and find out quickly and go. I'm not saying beej was the latter. I really have no opinion on where she fell or didn't.

My suggestion is this: This is a subject that will NEVER EVER EVER have a solution. There are too many of us for any type of behavior modification. Stepford Buffistas does not sound appealing.

Can this be dropped now?

I don't think this discussion is necessarily going to be resolved with a need for any particular action (though I do think guacamole is a useful notion in the FAQ).

But it does feed into the Buffista tendency to talk everything over until everything has been said three or more times.

Which has its flaws, what with boring people and preventing quick action, but it does prevent us from going off half-cocked.

Which has its flaws, what with boring people and preventing quick action, but it does prevent us from going off half-cocked.

This is true. Buffistas are always fully-cocked.

Perhaps this should be our slogan.