She raised my hackles because not only did she seem like she was coming on too strongly, but on her first day she was excitedly burbling in the F2F thread about how excited she was to go to the F2F. Excitement is good, but my exact reaction was "Who are you? Do you know us? Do you realize that this event is not a con, but more of a yearly meeting of people who already know each other? Do you realize your helpful suggestions sound like you want to take over because You Know Best?"

Yes! Yes! This. Put my back up immediately. And then when she started spamming her website and "service," I lost all perspective. I did scroll past every post with her name on it, but I could tell others were attempting to be polite and respond to her, and it didn't seem to go well.

I think, really, anyone is due a certain courtesy. If they are, or remain ignorant of the courtesy being accorded them, they need just a little rap with the cluestick.

There's a lot more of us than there used to be, and a lot more perspectives. While that's exciting and valuable, it's also mined with possibilities for misunderstanding. I would say what Katie took exception to to anyone I've been posting with for awhile, I'd expect you to know me well enough to get my tone. Not so much a new poster--but even then, most newbies pick up tone from how others respond.

I don't know. I don't want to chase every newbie screaming from the board, but I don't want to have to hand-hold every one of them, either. They should be able to grasp culture from the flow in progress. If they don't, a little gentle guidance shouldn't be perceived as "piling on." And I'm more in favor of stepping in with a request for clarification early rather than late, because by the time somebody's gotten on my last nerve, several other people are probably frothing. Or on a bad day, it's me frothing.

I still maintain that half--or nearly--of the responsibility for being clearly understood and for fitting in belongs to anyone who delurks. Most handle it, some with some bumps, but they handle it. The rest never will, and maybe shouldn't. It's a bad fit.

Yeah, but that tends to ruin dramatic exits.

Well, sure, but the flouncing off in a huff kinda put the kibosh on any sympathy I might have had.

Tone is WAY more than vocal inflection. From how incredibly articulate we all are, that should be obvious.

For example, I could consider this to be an obvious shot at me.

I suppose you could. And if you did, you could smack me down, ask me to clarify, bitch about me backchannel, ignore me, or some combination thereof. Makes no nevermind to me.

If anyone misunderstands anything at all I post, they are free to take any of the above steps.

I, however, think that I am eminently clear. And I pull no punches. If I mean to make an obvious shot, I'll make an obvious shot, directed at a specific person. It won't be veiled in an explanation of some other topic.

Steph's a BIG slut.

this is why I had not posted the comment back then, and I really hesitated about posting it now. I don't have a solid example to cite.

Gotcha.

I understand that it's hard to come up with post numbers on demand. But do you mean that we're nasty to newbies, or that we make too big a deal out of greeting them (which can be almost as intimidating as being shouted at), or that we just somehow Treat Them Differently?

I expect I should probably apologize for starting the kerfuffle, since I was the one who slapped down beej last night.

I don't think so, Consuela. Your response was measured and non-inflammatory - which has always been your way with people who step over the line.

I don't think this discussion is necessarily going to be resolved with a need for any particular action (though I do think guacamole is a useful notion in the FAQ).

I think I'm particularly sensitive to this issue because I'm spending a lot of time coaching a bunch of 7 y.o.'s how to play baseball. They're anxious and they wince when they screw up and they get hurt easily. And, of course, new folks aren't little kids - they're adults. But I think the principles of teaching/training apply.

Newbies like carrots. Not sticks. Sometimes they get sticks anyway. Allyson's not going to waste any carrots on newbies and that's fine. But, for myself, I think bothering to bring people into the culture is a community responsibility. It doesn't have to be sink or swim here. It can be whatever we make it.

Steph's a BIG slut.

You betcha, baby. It was all planned on my part.

I'll just point out, again, that I don't think it was a shot (so if it was, you need to try harder (which is a joke)).

I, however, think that I am eminently clear.

Yes. And so do I think that I am eminently clear. That doesn't make it any easier for, say, PMM to understand my meaning without asking for more clarification.

Though at this point I'm no longer sure if we're even discussing the same point.

You betcha, baby. It was all planned on my part.

Race ya to 8's.

I'm going to make a bold (and possible flamibaity - but not meaning to) suggestion.

For over a year, off and on, we have had this discussion ad nauseum. And the same people say the same things in regards to newbies/smackdowns/etc.

Some of us will be always think "Sink or swim", some of us will give the benefit of the doubt, some of us will err on the side of caution and patience. All are wonderful and representative of the diversity in our personalities and our beliefs, which is one of the things that we can all agree that we love about this place.

There will be newbies who jump in and make the place their own and are welcome, there will be some who stutter about and then are fine and stay. There will always be people that don't belong and find out quickly and go. I'm not saying beej was the latter. I really have no opinion on where she fell or didn't.

My suggestion is this: This is a subject that will NEVER EVER EVER have a solution. There are too many of us for any type of behavior modification. Stepford Buffistas does not sound appealing.

Can this be dropped now?