Sink or swim. /jerk

There's always the good cop/bad cop approach....

Crossposting is what leads to the "piling on" effect, and that'll never change -- we crosspost about everything! In a group this big, there will often be four people with the same reaction to a give post, posting at the same time. Sometimes it's funny, sometimes it feels like piling on. It is what it is.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I wasn't around for all the specific cases of the stepped-on toes, but when I was, I held my posts because I figured someone else was going to notice the behavior and comment. Plus, who gets nominated to be "good cop" or the one to gently steer the obnoxious newbie in the right direction. Each buffista's style is different on how they deal with the frustration of feeling freaked out by a newcomer who starts out immediately stomping on the toes (whether it's inadvertant or not).

I think we continue to learn and each newbie is (and will likely continue to be) treated individually. I think in beej's case, it was definitely the individual and not the "newbieness" that had more to do with this situation.

It seems to me that there were a lot of people delurking recently and none had the kind of trouble beej had--maybe she came on too strongly. I dunno. I'm not ready to sign on for any behavior modification just yet.

"You cow! Maybe you should watch where you put those clodhoppers. Do I know you?"

But--but-- It's so apt. And of Our Culture!

Er, well, I kinda wish it were less of Our Culture, because it makes me flinch. But we had this discussion in Natter last year, and I discovered that what I see as politeness a lot of Buffistas see as fakery. Which was, you know, interesting, in the sort of "um, you're kidding, right?" way that my brain usually reserves for particularly wacky religious outlooks on life. (That's not meant as a slam, just as a description of how gobsmacked I was to realize that our perspectives were so different.)

Though I should add that I don't really care about this particular case one way or the other.

I'm always for patience and kindness - but I'm also for aggressive forthrightness. So I'm in the middle here.

But I will say this - with an election coming I think we will see more and not less thread drift toward politics. I am wary of it. I was an active participant in the TT politics threads and while I read a lot of great stuff and met interesting people - I saw some stuff that made me want to never ever turn the computer on again. But short of saying "we can't talk politcs" this is going to happen - and it undoubteldy will lead to kerfuffles. Just something to keep in mind.

Yes, it would be great if new people lurked and figured out the way the board worked.

There is a fine line to this as well. I lurked for too long. By time I finally delurked I had been reading about everyone here forever. I was that creepy stalker stranger that knows your birthday and favorite color but you've never seen them before. It's made every post a little weird for me, honestly. As I am sure it has for others.

I'm don't regret delurking and am not fishing for validation; I think I'll always feel "new" but I'm cool with my place as well. IJS - fine line.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this. I do think that it's better to ask rather than to assume, because even in face-to-face conversation things can be misconstrued. It's exponentially more likely to happen on-line.

Even asking can feel like a pile on online, at least in a place this fast-moving, if enough people are bothered. It's a tough call. Maybe, hindsight being 20/20 and all, things would be smoother if the first time someone's bothered, they bring it up rather than allowing it to build. But I've seen that go as poorly as taking a wait and see/get sick of waiting approach, and this applies to more than just new people.

I think these threads, in particular, could use a little less growling, from everyone, self not just included but front and center. I still feel like I should have stepped in and told people to chill when Megan's hubby was getting snarled at, but I thought Wolfram said everything that needed to be said, and that if I said anything, it would have come out wrong and made things worse, so I kept my mouth shut.

I also love that the guacamole metaphor has already gone from the littlle tale itself to just a guacamole reference, then to "guac" and now "guac-ed."

Yes, this.

I agree with you, Katie. Though I think that Bev was probably kidding, I think that many have adopted it as the norm.

I expect I should probably apologize for starting the kerfuffle, since I was the one who slapped down beej last night. As someone way upthread posted, however, it wasn't the list of examples she cited that made me bristle but the header, posted in with no qualifications. I posted my response to that one post, since I hadn't seen beej say anything problematic in any of the other threads I've been reading.

I could plead the late hour and the cold medication, but I won't. I don't feel that the board is any more prickly right now than it has been in the past -- it goes in cycles, as Allyson says.

Additionally, there's a lot of indication in the FAQ already about how this is a unique forum, that new members are strongly encouraged to lurk and learn the community. I like the guacamole analogy but I doubt it would help people any more than the material already there.

I don't want us to get a reputation for being unwelcoming, but I don't think it's out of line for me or anyone else to point out where they thought someone misspoke. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic, but I don't think the response justifies a wholesale rethinking of how we as a community interact.

Even asking can feel like a pile on online,

Which is why we so often add 'honest question' or the like to a 'what do you mean' post. Because we want to make sure that the question isn't perceived as accusatory. Because the reader of the post might put their own spin on the 'tone'.