Thanks, Elena.

I'm fighting off an ook, so I'm very tired this morning. Okay, afternoon, techincally.

What you get from a post has more to do with you - your perceptions, your experience of the poster, your issues - than with the words in the box.

But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

I think I've never posted at an online forum without lurking there a while first, so I'm not sure I understand what the reasonable expectations would be from someone who leaps before she lurks. But in general I'd say if you're going to join a new community without checking out the community standards first, it's sensible to be prepared for some feedback.

Beej could have said, "Okay, I'm getting chastised a lot, that's a sign I don't get the social conventions here as well as I thought; I'll try harder to suss them out." Instead, she said, "Okay, I'm getting chastised a lot, that's a sign I don't belong, bye." And I think the latter is a valid decision, if she doesn't have the time or willingness to fit in. It's not that unusual to try out a community, find out it's not working for you, and leave.

I'm not a big fan of the newbies who run off crying and pouting and swearing they'll never return just because they guac-ed right out of the gate, like that minear-wannabe who called us all asshats or something, but I do think that some of us could be a little nicer while smacking down the newbies. Somebody earlier was saying that Beej was treated no differently then Gar. That was my impression as well. But I think a newbie needs to be treated gentler then a regular. We expect new people to be patient and acclimate themselves to the community, and we should give them the same courtesies.

The same way we don't know their tones, they really don't know ours. Things might go easier if we kept that in mind.

musty decrepitude

offa my lawn mutter mumble

But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this. I do think that it's better to ask rather than to assume, because even in face-to-face conversation things can be misconstrued. It's exponentially more likely to happen on-line.

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

This could be a good idea - letting new people know that even if it happens and there's a guacamole-stepping or a punch-bowl tripping, even on the great new shoes of a longtime poster, it doesn't mean that you're not welcome at the party anymore, just that it takes some time and effort to clean the shoes, and have a new song playing in the background for people to pay attention to other things, and let you fit in the party and have fun again.

I don't know much about the culture of any other boards, but maybe letting people know that even if you turn over the table with the drinks, it can mean nothing in the long run - knowing this in advance - make it easier for any newbie who may feel 'piled on'.

We could have a whole section about Famous Guacamole-Tipping Incidents.

No?

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

I agree with this. I also love that the guacamole metaphor has already gone from the littlle tale itself to just a guacamole reference, then to "guac" and now "guac-ed."

We expect new people to be patient and acclimate themselves to the community, and we should give them the same courtesies.

I don't have the time. Sink or swim. /jerk

Sink or swim. /jerk

There's always the good cop/bad cop approach....