Clarification, PMM, comes in that very same post.

Or, rather, there is what the reader perceives, and what the writer intended. And, because we can't hear tone, or see facial expression or body language, the reactions we have to posts are more a function of what we think the poster means than what the poster means. (Now, obviously, there are cases where a poster is quite blatent about what they intended, but that is perhaps the exception.)

This is why, instead of assuming that the 'tone' we've detected is what was intended, I think it's best to err on the side of patience, and perhaps ask for clarification of meaning.

What you get from a post has more to do with you - your perceptions, your experience of the poster, your issues - than with the words in the box.

Still, I don't see it. There's been in influx of newbies, sure. I don't see mistreatment of them, some have made themselves quite at home.

Feeling a little like Sodapop in The Outsiders, here. I see impatience more than mistreatment (and I'm guilty of that too). At the same time I wouldn't think of asking Allyson (I'm just using you as an example here, same goes for anyone else) to change how she posts. It may rankle some, but anything else wouldn't be true to her.

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

Ahem. Standing right here.

So sorry. I bow to your musty decrepitude wise seniority.

Thanks, Elena.

I'm fighting off an ook, so I'm very tired this morning. Okay, afternoon, techincally.

What you get from a post has more to do with you - your perceptions, your experience of the poster, your issues - than with the words in the box.

But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

I think I've never posted at an online forum without lurking there a while first, so I'm not sure I understand what the reasonable expectations would be from someone who leaps before she lurks. But in general I'd say if you're going to join a new community without checking out the community standards first, it's sensible to be prepared for some feedback.

Beej could have said, "Okay, I'm getting chastised a lot, that's a sign I don't get the social conventions here as well as I thought; I'll try harder to suss them out." Instead, she said, "Okay, I'm getting chastised a lot, that's a sign I don't belong, bye." And I think the latter is a valid decision, if she doesn't have the time or willingness to fit in. It's not that unusual to try out a community, find out it's not working for you, and leave.

I'm not a big fan of the newbies who run off crying and pouting and swearing they'll never return just because they guac-ed right out of the gate, like that minear-wannabe who called us all asshats or something, but I do think that some of us could be a little nicer while smacking down the newbies. Somebody earlier was saying that Beej was treated no differently then Gar. That was my impression as well. But I think a newbie needs to be treated gentler then a regular. We expect new people to be patient and acclimate themselves to the community, and we should give them the same courtesies.

The same way we don't know their tones, they really don't know ours. Things might go easier if we kept that in mind.

musty decrepitude

offa my lawn mutter mumble

But all those things are formed by the words in the box, except the issues, and as I said, if more than one person is having tone issues, then the words in the box probably have a lot more to do with it than the issues of an individual poster.

We'll have to agree to disagree about this. I do think that it's better to ask rather than to assume, because even in face-to-face conversation things can be misconstrued. It's exponentially more likely to happen on-line.

Maybe our in-between solution is to add the guac metaphor to the cautionary 'fitting in is your own job' stuff in ettiquitte. It might inspire a little added caution.

This could be a good idea - letting new people know that even if it happens and there's a guacamole-stepping or a punch-bowl tripping, even on the great new shoes of a longtime poster, it doesn't mean that you're not welcome at the party anymore, just that it takes some time and effort to clean the shoes, and have a new song playing in the background for people to pay attention to other things, and let you fit in the party and have fun again.

I don't know much about the culture of any other boards, but maybe letting people know that even if you turn over the table with the drinks, it can mean nothing in the long run - knowing this in advance - make it easier for any newbie who may feel 'piled on'.

We could have a whole section about Famous Guacamole-Tipping Incidents.

No?