Bureaucracy 2: Like Sartre, Only Longer
A thread to discuss naming threads, board policy, new thread suggestions, and anything else that has to do with board administration and maintenance. Guaranteed to include lively debate and polls. Natter discouraged, but not deleted.
Current Stompy Feet: ita, Jon B, DXMachina, P.M. Marcontell, Liese S., amych
I'll repeat to some extent what I said there. Unfotunately, when you're new, it's hard to distinguish individual posters and there is a little sense of borg-ness. Or, if you prefer, b.org-ness, in that we're all the same buffista. So, a few people didn't like what Beej had to say, and to her it felt like we were all coming down on her-- but I actually think the original responses were pretty typical for us. They were no worse than the rebukes made to Typo
in the same thread and timeframe.
And Beej further confused the issue by claiming that she was getting different treatment for "snarking," which is false. I felt like Beej kind of overreacted to people telling her we don't like to be condescended to. But I also think we treated her a little condescendingly by assuming her tone was because she was new, and not simply something that many people would find a little rude coming from someone they don't know well.
I'm hundreds of posts behind in Tim's thread, and know absolutely nothing of the current kerfuffle, but I can say that I've noticed a tendancy to be more aggressive and less patient on the board, generally.
I admit I'm a conflict-avoider, and I just don't know any tactful way to say "Hey, you're new; it might be more helpful to proceed slowly."
And now someone will post and say that what I just said is a tactful statement, which is true. But then my fear is that it would be met with "Why? Am I doing something wrong?" And then I *really* can't find a tactful way to say "Uh....yeah. You've annoyed half the board in one day."
I got to both threads too late to really say anything useful in beej's defense, plus even after more than a year, I still feel like a newbie sometimes. In both cases, she was sharing information that was the sort of thing Buffistas would be interested in. Unfortunately, she prefaced them with "here's some political education for you" rather than a more Buffista-friendly "here's more data for the discussion." I kind of winced to quite so much of a pile-on.
I can't speak for any other thread, because I haven't been able to keep up anywhere but Minearverse, but until last night's political discussion, I haven't seen any hostility or "agression" in that thread.
I think that maybe people were a little harsh with Beej but I also think Beej seriously overreacted to it.
What Shawn Said, to the letter.
Ahh, the dreaded right-hand threads where sour stomachs are fomented.
Can I just say (and this is not directed at you, Hec) that I hate that people get so hostile about Bureau et. al.? I get that some people aren't policy/analytical debate people. That's cool. But it's possible to believe a thread is not your thing and avoid it without snarking about its existence.
Anyhow.
My back went up on the "quiz" and then in two subsequent posts.
Did you understand that it wasn't something she had written, but a cut-and-paste? I didn't get that until I reread it. It makes the tone a bit more forgivable, though I probably would have added a disclaimer to it.
I can say that I've noticed a tendancy to be more aggressive and less patient on the board, generally.
it feels this way to me too, Elena. I think all of the Minearverse newbies are getting some people's backs up a bit. Not sure what we can do other than count to ten and ride it out.
They were no worse than the rebukes made to Typo in the same thread and timeframe.
The longevity thing works both ways, such that getting a rebuke after you've been around a while, stings less than it does for a new poster. Which is perfectly fair for the long time folks - you get more slack, and you know you're not reviled when you get the choke chain.
However, I'm not talking about what's fair as a general principle here, so much as making an effort to be gentler and more patient with new folks. I don't think we were unfair - I just think we can be better than fair because it is to our advantage to show people how things work around here. Many, many valued posters started here with more than a few trips into the guacamole dip.
The one thing I would note in this paraticular instance is that any one of those rebuke/responses would have been enough. Multiple jerks on the choke-chain was too much. Also, a little Good Cop/ Bad Cop could've been helpful. Which did kind of happen down the line - folks taking a gentler tone: "It's okay. People make mistakes. We've all done it."
Can I just say (and this is not directed at you, Hec) that I hate that people get so hostile about Bureau et. al.?
Me too. I resent it. But it's not a big deal either.
