I got to both threads too late to really say anything useful in beej's defense, plus even after more than a year, I still feel like a newbie sometimes. In both cases, she was sharing information that was the sort of thing Buffistas would be interested in. Unfortunately, she prefaced them with "here's some political education for you" rather than a more Buffista-friendly "here's more data for the discussion." I kind of winced to quite so much of a pile-on.

I think the relevant posts start around Beej "The Minearverse: YExpirationDateMV" Mar 28, 2004 8:03:29 pm PST (I'm still catching-up).

I can't speak for any other thread, because I haven't been able to keep up anywhere but Minearverse, but until last night's political discussion, I haven't seen any hostility or "agression" in that thread.

I think that maybe people were a little harsh with Beej but I also think Beej seriously overreacted to it.

What Shawn Said, to the letter.

Ahh, the dreaded right-hand threads where sour stomachs are fomented.

Can I just say (and this is not directed at you, Hec) that I hate that people get so hostile about Bureau et. al.? I get that some people aren't policy/analytical debate people. That's cool. But it's possible to believe a thread is not your thing and avoid it without snarking about its existence.

Anyhow.

My back went up on the "quiz" and then in two subsequent posts.

Did you understand that it wasn't something she had written, but a cut-and-paste? I didn't get that until I reread it. It makes the tone a bit more forgivable, though I probably would have added a disclaimer to it.

I can say that I've noticed a tendancy to be more aggressive and less patient on the board, generally.

it feels this way to me too, Elena. I think all of the Minearverse newbies are getting some people's backs up a bit. Not sure what we can do other than count to ten and ride it out.

They were no worse than the rebukes made to Typo in the same thread and timeframe.

The longevity thing works both ways, such that getting a rebuke after you've been around a while, stings less than it does for a new poster. Which is perfectly fair for the long time folks - you get more slack, and you know you're not reviled when you get the choke chain.

However, I'm not talking about what's fair as a general principle here, so much as making an effort to be gentler and more patient with new folks. I don't think we were unfair - I just think we can be better than fair because it is to our advantage to show people how things work around here. Many, many valued posters started here with more than a few trips into the guacamole dip.

The one thing I would note in this paraticular instance is that any one of those rebuke/responses would have been enough. Multiple jerks on the choke-chain was too much. Also, a little Good Cop/ Bad Cop could've been helpful. Which did kind of happen down the line - folks taking a gentler tone: "It's okay. People make mistakes. We've all done it."

Can I just say (and this is not directed at you, Hec) that I hate that people get so hostile about Bureau et. al.?

Me too. I resent it. But it's not a big deal either.

For what it's worth I don't think Beej's tone was intended the way it was taken, but I also see why people took it the way they did. (Um, in Minearverse. I have no idea what happened elsewhere.) I guess I feel that if the first admonition had been a little more gentle things would've gone better. On the other hand, this was certainly not the worst smackdown I've witnessed around here.

Did you understand that it wasn't something she had written, but a cut-and-paste?

That made it worse. I understood that right away, and it seemed both patronizing and cheap. As well as arrogant and uncaring. Whether or not she meant it, I had just hoped she'd go away and not return.

Whether or not she meant it, I had just hoped she'd go away and not return.

Yeah, see, I don't think this is the idea we want to get across with new posters.