I am unable to see how eliminating NP is keeping people down - if people are ambivilent to an issue, why do they care that it gets resolved? why don't they just step away from the discussion or MARCIE the people they are bothered by, if staying away from a discussion requires more self-control than they can muster?

I am lost at the need to participate in deciding on something you don't care about.

I am lost at the need to participate in deciding on something you don't care about.

This is why I made the point about not being sure if my issues with it have ever come up on the board. The votes always seem to be a binary, yes/no, kind of a thing. But if there's ever a vote that's not binary, that's an either/or vote, then I'd really want the no preference vote there.

I think we make everything a yes no vote because of the "no preferential voting" thing. Which doesn't seem to be documented anywhere except the places where it is SEARED INTO MY BRAIN.

But if there's ever a vote that's not binary, that's an either/or vote, then I'd really want the no preference vote there.

As I mentioned earlier, I think this has only happened when there's a sub-vote to the main proposal, i.e. spoilers or not, or waiting period.

But if there's ever a vote that's not binary, that's an either/or vote, then I'd really want the no preference vote there.

Could you give an example, Jars? I'm having trouble picturing what you mean.

I can see wanting to participate in a vote even though you aren't choosing a side, as a way of registering that you are here in the Buffista Town Hall, as it were, paying attention but still not convinced of which way to go. Would a formal abstention that does not count towards the quorum satisfy that desire?

Could you give an example, Jars? I'm having trouble picturing what you mean.

It makes sense in elections. Do I have to vote for Smith or Brown, or can I just vote NO -- registering dissent with the choices and not dropping out of the process.

But does that count for anything? If enough people just vote NO can neither Smith nor Brown take office, is that the idea?

I just want to be sure I understand

Haven't there been a few multi-level votes? Where the first question was a y/n new thread but then there were votes on policies related to the new thread if it passes? I think those secondary policy questions are the only ones where I've voted no preference.

Although, now that I think about it, there may be cases where I haven't cared about whether we need a new thread for X, but I wanted to participate because I felt it was my civic duty to boldly state that it doesn't affect me one way or another.

Although, now that I think about it, there may be cases where I haven't cared about whether we need a new thread for X, but I wanted to participate because I felt it was my civic duty to boldly state that it doesn't affect me one way or another.

This is definitely me. I don't vote only when I "care" about the outcome. I vote because I'm part of society and as such I believe I have a responsibility to vote.

Some people have expressed bafflement as to why I would want to participate when I don't "care". I express bafflement as to why you seem to want to force everyone to pick a side in order to be a part of the process.

Maybe if we didn't have a quorum, I might feel differently. But, as long as people (and a number have in the past) continue to express a "why don't you just shut up already" attitude in certain discussions, I would like to have the NP option, especially if the quorum number is raised.

Could you give an example, Jars?

Um, what Jesse said, pretty much. Which was

It makes sense in elections. Do I have to vote for Smith or Brown, or can I just vote NO -- registering dissent with the choices and not dropping out of the process.

So, yeah. As part of the group, I feel like it's my duty to take part in votes that affect the group, but if I don't agree with either side, I want a forum for my feelings on that to be counted. For instance, as I was telling DH yesterday, if we ever move to the States and I become a citizen, I'll probably vote by spoiling my ballot, if there's no option for abstention. Of course, I realise votes on the board aren't the same thing as a general election, but I also don't see the need to take away the option of a no preference option.

Lets see if I can say option again. Option. There.