Everybody dies, Tracey. Someone's carrying a bullet for you right now, doesn't even know it. The trick is to die of old age before it finds you.

Mal ,'The Message'


Voting Discussion: We're Screwing In Light Bulbs AIFG!  

We open it up, we talks the talk, we votes, we shuts it down. This thread is to free up Bureaucracy for daily details as we hammer out the Big Issues towards a vote. Open only when a proposal has been made and seconded according to Buffista policy (Which we voted on!). If this thread is closed, hie thee to Bureaucracy instead!


-t - May 16, 2008 7:44:35 am PDT #8807 of 10289
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

But does that count for anything? If enough people just vote NO can neither Smith nor Brown take office, is that the idea?

I just want to be sure I understand


Hayden - May 16, 2008 7:51:53 am PDT #8808 of 10289
aka "The artist formerly known as Corwood Industries."

Haven't there been a few multi-level votes? Where the first question was a y/n new thread but then there were votes on policies related to the new thread if it passes? I think those secondary policy questions are the only ones where I've voted no preference.

Although, now that I think about it, there may be cases where I haven't cared about whether we need a new thread for X, but I wanted to participate because I felt it was my civic duty to boldly state that it doesn't affect me one way or another.


megan walker - May 16, 2008 8:25:29 am PDT #8809 of 10289
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

Although, now that I think about it, there may be cases where I haven't cared about whether we need a new thread for X, but I wanted to participate because I felt it was my civic duty to boldly state that it doesn't affect me one way or another.

This is definitely me. I don't vote only when I "care" about the outcome. I vote because I'm part of society and as such I believe I have a responsibility to vote.

Some people have expressed bafflement as to why I would want to participate when I don't "care". I express bafflement as to why you seem to want to force everyone to pick a side in order to be a part of the process.

Maybe if we didn't have a quorum, I might feel differently. But, as long as people (and a number have in the past) continue to express a "why don't you just shut up already" attitude in certain discussions, I would like to have the NP option, especially if the quorum number is raised.


Jars - May 16, 2008 8:28:21 am PDT #8810 of 10289

Could you give an example, Jars?

Um, what Jesse said, pretty much. Which was

It makes sense in elections. Do I have to vote for Smith or Brown, or can I just vote NO -- registering dissent with the choices and not dropping out of the process.

So, yeah. As part of the group, I feel like it's my duty to take part in votes that affect the group, but if I don't agree with either side, I want a forum for my feelings on that to be counted. For instance, as I was telling DH yesterday, if we ever move to the States and I become a citizen, I'll probably vote by spoiling my ballot, if there's no option for abstention. Of course, I realise votes on the board aren't the same thing as a general election, but I also don't see the need to take away the option of a no preference option.

Lets see if I can say option again. Option. There.


Jesse - May 16, 2008 8:31:46 am PDT #8811 of 10289
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

Jars, what about this question?

But does that count for anything? If enough people just vote NO can neither Smith nor Brown take office, is that the idea?


msbelle - May 16, 2008 8:33:26 am PDT #8812 of 10289
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

to me posting in the threads is participating. voting whatever on a ballot to meet quorum, nsm.


Wolfram - May 16, 2008 8:36:01 am PDT #8813 of 10289
Visilurking

I am lost at the need to participate in deciding on something you don't care about.

Voting NP, does not mean you don't care. I know that once an issue is raised, I care very much to a) know about it, and b) see it get settled. Even if I don't mind which way it goes.

No Preference is another way of voting present and abstaining. In my view, the purpose of the quorum is not to make sure 42 people are either FOR an issue or AGAINST an issue. Rather the quorum is to make sure 42 people are on actual notice of an issue by being present for the vote. (Obviously, a posting in press is also a form of notice, but the only way to prove someone had actual notice is with a response like a NP vote.)

The elections are not a good analogy for the voting that we do here. I sit on a non-profit board of trustees, and we hold quarterly meetings. For a meeting to proceed, we require a quorum of at least 8 trustees present. To take actions, we require majority vote. And the vote is always called: For, Against, and Abstain. This is exactly the way I see our voting procedures working now, and it makes perfect sense to me.


msbelle - May 16, 2008 8:44:05 am PDT #8814 of 10289
I remember the crazy days. 500 posts an hour. Nubmer! Natgbsb

I didn't mean don't care in the big sense of not caring about the board, I meant about how an issue played out.

I get it - others feel different than me.


NoiseDesign - May 16, 2008 8:57:19 am PDT #8815 of 10289
Our wings are not tired

If an issue gets several NPs, it's worth taking note that a high degree of ambivalence exists on the issue.

This is my concern. If the NP makes up a majority of the vote results then I believe that the vote shouldn't pass. If that many people are ambivalent about the issue then it should be tossed back to discussion. Another way to do this is with simple majority. To win an issue must get at least 51% of the total vote count. So if an issue had three 5 people vote, 1 NO, 2 YES, and 2 NP, then it would not pass since the 2 YES would not be greater that 51% of the total vote count of 5.


Laura - May 16, 2008 10:03:50 am PDT #8816 of 10289
Our wings are not tired.

In my view, the purpose of the quorum is not to make sure 42 people are either FOR an issue or AGAINST an issue. Rather the quorum is to make sure 42 people are on actual notice of an issue by being present for the vote.

This is how I see NP. I have voted 'Present' on a couple of issues not because I didn't care, but I wanted to let the majority of interested parties rule. I wouldn't vote Yes or No to a rules change in a thread where I didn't participate, but I would vote NP to validate the vote.

FWIW, 42 still seems like a perfect number to me. I don't think things have changed significantly since we decided on that number.