I understand if you have no use for a gaming thread, or any other thread.

But if it is of no use or interest to you, why be against it? Why the opposition?

but that is the part that comes across as "I don't care what you want, I am against you for the sake of..." I don't know? What? Spite?

Spite? Really? Come on, Sean, is that necessary? Can't you think of a single reason why someone might not want a gaming thread that is not a personal affront to you?

Of course I care what you want. That doesn't mean I will vote the way you want me to vote. I don't vote for proposals because people want them. I vote for them because I think they're good ideas that will work. Things that I don't think are good ideas, or that I don't think will work, I don't vote for. I'm often on the opposite side from people I like and wish well. If we all voted the same way for the sake of not-disagreeing, I would not be a member of this community, because this community would be a cult.

I don't like the idea of a new thread being created where acute need has not already been demonstrated (i.e., via overflow within existing threads). I don't like the idea of fragmented subcommunities. I don't like the idea of all the other narrow-topic threads that could follow, like Politics and Baseball and who knows what. I've already expressed these opinions, and they have nothing at all to do with my opinion of or regard for Sean K or anybody else.

It is possible to hold a contrary opinion for better reasons than pure contrariness. If this were not so, the Buffistas would not exist.

Okay, I'm really not trying to be inflammatory, Nutty.

I'm trying to bridge a gap and FAILING MISERABLY.

Same here.

But did my most recent post make sense?

I don't like the idea of a new thread being created where acute need has not already been demonstrated (i.e., via overflow within existing threads).

I don't understand why this is the only valid method of thread creation, especially when that doesn't actually seem to be true in practice.

I don't like the idea of fragmented subcommunities.

They already exist. New threads will not prevent them. A halt to new threads will not unfracture them.

I don't like the idea of all the other narrow-topic threads that could follow, like Politics and Baseball and who knows what.

But if this is not all about me, which I don't believe it is, Nutty, then it's not all about you, either. And forcing everyone else to use only general, non-narrow topic threads is just as fragmenting and unhealthy to the community.

But did my most recent post make sense?

It made sense to me. Do I count?

Gaming isn't historically of interest to me, and I don't know anything about it. Giving it its own thread is basically a guarantee I won't learn anything about it. The gaming talk will happen in its own context, with its own specialist lingo, without recourse to changing the topic to spoons or muffallettas. If a thread were 10% gaming, 90% something else, I might pick up some gaming lingo, and someday become interested. If a thread is 100% gaming, or even 90% or 80%, I will not be in the thread at all, and will be much less likely to become interested in gaming.

It is indeed true that having a gaming thread will make it less likely that you'll be talking games with the gamer bods. But not by that much, since we'd probably already need a lowish-volume, specialised thread to sustain gamer talk. So I think the choice is between gamer talk away from you, or being limited to sporadic, erratic gamer talk at all.

I think a gamer thread makes it more likely that we'll be talking games with each other at all. (I sure hope so, because otherwise, how perverse are we?) That makes the community a little happier for me, and means I'll probably spend more time here as part of the community. It'll also foster community links between the gamer thread participants, some of whom I haven't met or necessarily talk with that much. In short, it would make me feel more connected to this board (I'm only talking for myself here). For that to translate to me spending time with the broader community, well, I will, because I likes the community and I feel part of it. But that is something the community fosters by its appeal to me, not by nudging me away from smaller conversations I'd like to have with smaller subsets.

To look at it another way, it seems to me that having a gamers thread may disadvantage non-gamers in being part of it. Conversely, not having a gamers thread may disadvantage gamers in trying to create and sustain such confab in the first place. On this issue, I'm going with the interests of the prospective participants over the stealthy spectators.

What billytea said.

It made sense to me. Do I count?

Some people have said so, but I reckon you're just highly attuned to your owner and use his subtle body language cues to know when to stop tapping your hoof.

Quick! Someone Turing Test that Indian!

I don't understand why this is the only valid method of thread creation, especially when that doesn't actually seem to be true in practice.

I'm not sure it's the only valid method, but it's the one I trust most.

They already exist. New threads will not prevent them. A halt to new threads will not unfracture them.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I don't agree with you.

But if this is not all about me, which I don't believe it is, Nutty, then it's not all about you, either.

How I vote is not about you. It is very much about me, though, right? I mean, the community, but me within the community, right? I have a right to vote my own conscience. Even if my own conscience leads me someplace different from the pro-gaming stance.

And forcing everyone else to use only general, non-narrow topic threads is just as fragmenting and unhealthy to the community.

I'm sorry you feel this way, too. I don't agree with you on this one, either.

My point is, you have a legitimate perspective, in wanting a gaming thread. I don't deny that your desire is real, and I don't deny your arguments make sense (except I still don't understand how a gaming thread would foster community, although Billytea's addition helps on that front). All I ask is that my perspective be considered legitimate too, that my desires be valued, that my arguments be evaluated on their merits.

It is totally possible for two completely reasonable people to come to opposite conclusions about the same set of facts. Sean, when you've been arguing with me, especially when you use words like "spite", I don't feel like you are allowing the possibility that I might be a reasonable person, just like you, who just happens to disagree with you completely. I like to think I've honored your perspective this evening (although see above re the part I don't understand); but I don't feel like my perspective has been honored in return.

It made sense to me. Do I count?

Of course you count, P-C. You and Billytea are the only other people awake on the whole board.