The reason we pulled the shows out of Natter was because the talk got lost. The experimental thread worked beautifully because people saw a use for it. Putting these shows back in Natter says, "Just because it worked doesn't mean you can have it, we prefer the clunky chaotic method."

Multiple overlapping mini-watch-and-posts during original broadcasts

I don't recall this being a problem with the experimental thread. I don't have time to analyze the experimental thread, but does anyone who was in there regularly remember traffic jams?

As I recall, there might have been half a dozen of us talking about any one show at a time. Talk would peak for a show the night of and the day after, then maybe generate 5 or 6 posts until the next episode. It was a cyclical flow.

Also, this presumes that all those shows will have people watching with the same level of interest and interactivity. That was not borne out by the experimental thread. The bucket thread would be for conversation. If you simply want to say "So and So on such and such a show should not wear orange," then that's perfect Natter fodder.

this feels too much like a general TV thread for my comfort.

I have yet to understand what's so terrible about a general TV thread--which this isn't.

Putting these shows back in Natter says, "Just because it worked doesn't mean you can have it, we prefer the clunky chaotic method."

Or maybe "Just because it worked for you doesn't mean it worked for everyone."

I saw no difference between the discussion in the experimental Drama thread and Natter except that I had to subscribe to an extra thread, and Natter felt kind of empty and lifeless when people felt they couldn't talk casually about network TV. I prefer the feel of Natter with network TV talk in it than the feel of Natter without TV + dedicated TV thread.

people felt they couldn't talk casually about network TV.

I thought the question about whether people could talk casually abuot TV in Natter was settled in the discussion about the Reality thread, ie, if you want to mention something in Natter, nobody has the right to shoo you out.

I felt like there was a lot more sustained discussion with the thread, and it didn't get unwieldy for me.

I definitely preferred Natter once we had the "there shall be no thread nannying" talk, and I personally ended up talking tv in both - I'd like for that to be an explicit element of the proposal.

That's a huge list of shows, but yeah - some of those are going to go away quickly, some of those are never going to drive much discussion.

Re the general tv thread question - I'm not sure how to handle that. I'm fairly certain I would not be in favor of a specifically defined bucket thread - "this thread is for shows a, b, c and f" - it feels too stagnant, especially since we really don't know what specific shows could really carry that at this point.

Right. If I want to talk about a show, I'd rather that it not get caught up in discussions of work woes and makeup, both of which I enjoy. But, if I want to flail or rage, I would rather do it in a thread where people will see it. Plus, Natter is an incredibly fast moving thread. Not everyone has time to read 100+ messages in a few hours, especially when only a few of them are about what you want to talk about.

if you want to mention something in Natter, nobody has the right to shoo you out.

This is great in theory, nsm in practice. The "right" to talk about anything in Natter doesn't change the fact that once Topic X has a dedicated thread, it becomes difficult to have a sustained discussion about it in Natter because so many of the potential discussers are off in the dedicated thread. (Or are in both but don't want to repeat themselves, etc.)

(Or are in both but don't want to repeat themselves, etc.)

Right. I know someone mentioned a show in natter that was being discussed elsewhere and I just ignored the post-- didn't want to shoo, didn't want to repeat myself. The upshot being that people can discuss wherever they want, but we shouldn't proceed with the idea that there's equal discussion in the dedicated thread and natter.

I felt like there was a lot more sustained discussion with the thread, and it didn't get unwieldy for me.

brenda is me, or I am her. Whichever.

it becomes difficult to have a sustained discussion about it in Natter because so many of the potential discussers are off in the dedicated thread

I don't find this a downside. I very rarely found anyone discussing the shows at the time I was watching them. Once a show hit the west coast, you could get some discussion but by then I was in bed. And I found it very unwiedly to go back anywhere from 100-200 posts to find it. Once the experimental thread opened, there was much more discussion that I was able to participate in. Plus, it was a heck of a lot easier to actually find the discussions that were of interest.

I think that, rather than dividing by network, it makes more sense to divide by characteristics of the shows, if we're worried about over-population of a single thread.

This, yes, this! I think it is worth revisiting, at this point, the genre-type thing we began to discuss a few months ago and then ended up dropping when the experimental threads were proposed.

I do think the experimental thread type deal was fine for Nonfic, and I think it was less fine for Cable Drama, which still smarts slightly to me for its creation anyway. For the Network Comedy-Dramas, I would think we could do a little more thorough thought about whether divisions like Procedurals, Mystery of the Week, etc. would be more apt for what we want.

I do not, however, want this discussion to get shunted in favor of tv talk for these shows solely in Natter, because I don't think that sustains discussion for any period of time beyond the initial airing and is inaccessible for reasons others have stated.

I think that if we try to split up the threads by type of show (procedurals, medical, etc...) that the threads might not generate enough discussion to justify their existence. The experimental thread, which I know some didn't like, seemed to have just the right balance of going back and forth from show to show. While I'm sure we could make a huge list of Procedurals, I don't think all of them would be discussed, if the results of the experimental thread are anything to go by.

I liked the experimental thread how it was. Spoilers in general don't bother me though, and when they did, I just stayed out of thread until I had watched the episode of the show in question.