Someone loves a show and shares the love in thread ==> More people start loving the show and talking about it more ==> Show builds in excitement until it's consistently dominating the thread ==> Board votes to spin off discussion of show into its own thread.

Jon just said what I was thinking. I think of this as an organic process. The baby starts as a little tiny squee, grows, and sometimes gets big enough that it needs its own house. When the day comes when that house gets too big for it, it can move back home. To me it seems reasonable that shows will move in and out of Boxed Set. When the show ends or the interest dies down, the thread closes and the discussion moves back to Boxed Set or Natter. But for that to happen, people have to feel free to show fannish glee in BS. We love television, and that's what we do: we fall in love with a show and want to hold it and kiss it and call it George. That enthusiasm from one person might get 10 other people to watch the show. In that process, though, the number of posts might get so large that there doesn't seem to be room to squee about other shows, and at that point, we think about getting the show a nice cozy new thread.

I am very much torn by this discussion, because I like Supernatural and love many of the people who feel as if they're being shown the door, but I can see the point of the people who think the number of posts (Not the fannishness. I don't think that's really been an issue.) has sometimes drowned other discussion. I've enjoyed the Supernatural discussing and squeeing and I really don't care how the vote turns out. What I do care about is losing the people who are saying they won't return to Boxed Set. I think everyone will be the poorer for that.

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But if the "worst" that happens is getting your own thread to talk about this other show, I don't get why it's such a bad thing. It seems like reasonable evolution in discussion:

Someone loves a show and shares the love in thread ==> More people start loving the show and talking about it more ==> Show builds in excitement until it's consistently dominating the thread ==> Board votes to spin off discussion of show into its own thread.

It may just be the manner in which it came about, Jon. Unfortunately, I think there would have been a lot less in the way of hurt feelings and discomfort if the new thread proposal had arisen out of potential users gathering enthusiasm for a self-motivated move into a dedicated thread rather than potential non-users looking for a solution to irritation with discussion they were uninterested in. I think that irritation is completely valid, but if there's a potential solution for it that doesn't involve making Boxed Set seem inhospitable to the discussion that would be moved and those invested in it, I don't know what it would be. It's essentially the difference between someone at a party saying "Hey, why don't we take this out onto the patio where we can use our outside voices?" and someone saying "Hey, can't you people quiet down or take it outside?" Same material result, completely different vibe.

So wait. Are you SPN types saying you wouldn't want to stay in Boxed Set now, anyway, no matter what?

I'm a SPN type who'll also stay in Boxed Set, assuming that the threads do end up diverging. (Which seems both likely and, perhaps, necessary now.) But I can definitely see why some folks wouldn't want to anymore.

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I think that irritation is completely valid, but if there's a potential solution for it that doesn't involve making Boxed Set seem inhospitable to the discussion that would be moved and those invested in it, I don't know what it would be. It's essentially the difference between someone at a party saying "Hey, why don't we take this out onto the patio where we can use our outside voices?" and someone saying "Hey, can't you people quiet down or take it outside?" Same material result, completely different vibe.

I get that, Matt, I really do. But if no one in the group is saying the former, there comes a point where someone outside the group has to say the latter, and there's no way to say it that won't offend someone, no matter how you frame it.

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This should probably should have gone in my last post, but I wanted to post at least that much while I could in case work called me away again.

sums it how (irrationally or no) Bev and I are feeling right now.

And me. I don't like feeling like this, but I do.

Yes, this. I realize that right now I am operating from somewhat of a bunker mentality, but I can't completely shake it, for the reasons Matt and Denise and others have stated.

It is definitely not just Frank's post, or even primarily. It's the stuff that happened before that, that led to us putting in jump tags, it's knowing how much this bothers people I care about (on both sides of the issue), and it's the last few days and the almost 400 posts here.

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"Hey, can't you people quiet down or take it outside?"

Decent analogy, but no one was asked to quiet down. I feel I need to make that point, lest someone feel again that their squeeing was a bad thing.

But even so, if someone does say that, should that really be translated as meaning you're not welcome at the party anymore?

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I really did mean it as a joke.

My tone-o-meter, as someone said, may be set to "sensitive" right now, Nutty.

That would have been me. Glad to know it was meant as something light-hearted. Actually makes me feel a lot better about this morning.

A lot of folks are probably on edge about the whole thing.

I don't think I am anything but edge right now.

But if the "worst" that happens is getting your own thread to talk about this other show, I don't get why it's such a bad thing. It seems like reasonable evolution in discussion:

Someone loves a show and shares the love in thread ==> More people start loving the show and talking about it more ==> Show builds in excitement until it's consistently dominating the thread ==> Board votes to spin off discussion of show into its own thread.

I personally don't think the thread will be as active and I will miss the interaction of discussing it along with other shows.

And I know it's going to happen but I don't think getting a shiny new thread of our own is the best thing and it's not what I personally wanted four days ago. This keeps being dismissed but there wasn't a clamor for a new thread from the people who would be using it. That is kinda key to me. I want one now because I really never want to have this conversation again. I don't want the thread, I want the peace.

One of "my" shows getting a thread is in no way a win for me.

Or I could just wait for ita to post what I tried and failed to say. This.

It may just be the manner in which it came about, Jon. Unfortunately, I think there would have been a lot less in the way of hurt feelings and discomfort if the new thread proposal had arisen out of potential users gathering enthusiasm for a self-motivated move into a dedicated thread rather than potential non-users looking for a solution to irritation with discussion they were uninterested in. I think that irritation is completely valid, but if there's a potential solution for it that doesn't involve making Boxed Set seem inhospitable to the discussion that would be moved and those invested in it, I don't know what it would be. It's essentially the difference between someone at a party saying "Hey, why don't we take this out onto the patio where we can use our outside voices?" and someone saying "Hey, can't you people quiet down or take it outside?" Same material result, completely different vibe.

Oh, Matt said it well, too.

I get that, Matt, I really do. But if no one in the group is saying the former, there comes a point where someone outside the group has to say the latter, and there's no way to say it that won't offend someone, no matter how you frame it.

When Plei said earlier that she'd likely keep any squeeful new show out of the threads? This is why I agreed with her. We thought we were in the right thread and carefully trying not to step on any timing toes and we put jump tags in at the end of watch and posts and we still were laughing a bit too loud.

If I'd even remotely thought there was going to be this kind of massive kerfuffle I never would have hit post.

I am really so sorry, Frank. I feel bad for this. But I kinda think it was inevitable. If it hadn't been, well we wouldn't be here.

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I want one now because I really never want to have this conversation again. I don't want the thread, I want the peace.

This.

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I get that, Matt, I really do. But if no one in the group is saying the former, there comes a point where someone outside the group has to say the latter, and there's no way to say it that won't offend someone, no matter how you frame it.

This. Looking back I don't know how I could have framed the fundamental question where it wouldn't have blown up.

It COULD have been framed better, I will totally cop to that. I would especially like to note that my "I'm just about ready to propose a thread" was completely out of line, and wasn't even completely accurate re my feelings towards the SPN discussion. It was framed as an ultimatum or a threat, and my intention wasn't to draw lines in the sand or something.

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I want one now because I really never want to have this conversation again. I don't want the thread, I want the peace.

Yeah.

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I want one now because I really never want to have this conversation again. I don't want the thread, I want the peace.

But unless we settle this, this conversation is certain to happen again, and if people give in just for peace without settling anything, this isn't going to be a good thing.

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