That was unfortunate short-hand I picked up in discussing trying to find certain discussions in natter (and during the whole experimental thread process). I am very sorry for my poor choice of words there.

It's no big, Frank, really. It never bothered me before -- I've even used the expression! It was just a little different for me when I realized I was the one making the "noise". But I really know that you didn't mean it that way.

And like I said, I proposed the thread partly out of guilt, because I didn't want other BS posters to feel crowded and unable to speak.

But if the "worst" that happens is getting your own thread to talk about this other show, I don't get why it's such a bad thing.

Again, not an SPN watcher, so this is hypothetical for me, but to me it's not whether there's a dedicated thread or not. It's the comfort level of continuing to post in the bucket thread. Discussions go on forever and a day in order to decide what goes in what threads and now people that are following those guidelines are basically being told that they talk too much. The fact that it's then being qualified to say that they only talk too much about SPN, but that everyone still wants to hear what they have to say about X, Y and Z, doesn't make it much better. If I were in this situation I would feel like if I chose to continue to go to Boxed Set to discuss X, Y and Z, that I would have to do it in a certain way and be careful to watch my X:Y:Z posting ratio. And when there's that much work involved to try to figure out which show it's okay to post about when, where's the fun or point of it all?

If I'd even remotely thought there was going to be this kind of massive kerfuffle I never would have hit post.

Um, have you met us?

Seriously, Frank, I for one, don't blame you, or Zen, or really anybody. It was going to happen, eventually. And if not SPN, then some other show. There comes a tip-over point. I, again, for one, didn't think we'd reached it yet, but obviously I was wrong.

I don't want to spoil anybody else's discussion or enjoyment of their shows. I want to discuss the shows I like with the people who share my squee. Obviously, obviously, the nearest thing to a satisfactory solution for the most people is a dedicated thread.

See, that? Stung. Even though Nutty was squeeing, too, I believe, which made it more confusing.

Oh, I'm so sorry, AmyLiz -- I really did mean it as a joke. I thought it was hilarious that we could be having the vaguely-rancorous conversation in Light Bulbs about Supernatural squee and having actual Superntural squee at the same time.

(And, I can't say I was squeeing, but I was definitely participating, so I thought it would be clear I was joking.)

My tone-o-meter, as someone said, may be set to "sensitive" right now, Nutty.

Or I could just be kind of dense.

then be told that you're talking too much about it?

I don't get that impression. The two cited posts seemed a bit cranky--the 7th grade slumberparty one in particular (unless that was someone joking about themselves), but I don't think that's what most of the folks in this discussion are thinking about. To me it seems anal0gous to LoTR and the Movies thread. People who wanted to talk about new releases or whatever were overwhelmed with discussion and squee and analysis and the LoTR thread was formed not to drive us out of movies but to make it possible for people to post about LoTR without worrying about constantly derailing ongoing discussions in Movies AND to be able to post ourselves without being interrupted. It felt like a win-win situation. SPN would be getting thread because so MANY folks love it and want to discuss it, not because so few do.

ETA: Ah, it was Nutty and she was joking. Okay.

(And, I can't say I was squeeing, but I was definitely participating, so I thought it would be clear I was joking.)

A lot of folks are probably on edge about the whole thing.

Why don't you propose a new place for you to talk about it?"

OK, I don't that's being fair to Frank. Here's exactly what he said:

This is belated, because work interfered, but you are right-- I thought I had edited it better than I really had, and then got called away. Sorry Frank, and no, no one is blaming you specifically, and I really am sorry it came out that way.

It was your comment that started the ball rolling, but if it hadn't been, it would have been someone else. The fact that whoever it was probably wouldn't have been an SPN viewer is make it seem off to me.

Someone loves a show and shares the love in thread ==> More people start loving the show and talking about it more ==> Show builds in excitement until it's consistently dominating the thread ==> Board votes to spin off discussion of show into its own thread.

Jon just said what I was thinking. I think of this as an organic process. The baby starts as a little tiny squee, grows, and sometimes gets big enough that it needs its own house. When the day comes when that house gets too big for it, it can move back home. To me it seems reasonable that shows will move in and out of Boxed Set. When the show ends or the interest dies down, the thread closes and the discussion moves back to Boxed Set or Natter. But for that to happen, people have to feel free to show fannish glee in BS. We love television, and that's what we do: we fall in love with a show and want to hold it and kiss it and call it George. That enthusiasm from one person might get 10 other people to watch the show. In that process, though, the number of posts might get so large that there doesn't seem to be room to squee about other shows, and at that point, we think about getting the show a nice cozy new thread.

I am very much torn by this discussion, because I like Supernatural and love many of the people who feel as if they're being shown the door, but I can see the point of the people who think the number of posts (Not the fannishness. I don't think that's really been an issue.) has sometimes drowned other discussion. I've enjoyed the Supernatural discussing and squeeing and I really don't care how the vote turns out. What I do care about is losing the people who are saying they won't return to Boxed Set. I think everyone will be the poorer for that.

But if the "worst" that happens is getting your own thread to talk about this other show, I don't get why it's such a bad thing. It seems like reasonable evolution in discussion:

Someone loves a show and shares the love in thread ==> More people start loving the show and talking about it more ==> Show builds in excitement until it's consistently dominating the thread ==> Board votes to spin off discussion of show into its own thread.

It may just be the manner in which it came about, Jon. Unfortunately, I think there would have been a lot less in the way of hurt feelings and discomfort if the new thread proposal had arisen out of potential users gathering enthusiasm for a self-motivated move into a dedicated thread rather than potential non-users looking for a solution to irritation with discussion they were uninterested in. I think that irritation is completely valid, but if there's a potential solution for it that doesn't involve making Boxed Set seem inhospitable to the discussion that would be moved and those invested in it, I don't know what it would be. It's essentially the difference between someone at a party saying "Hey, why don't we take this out onto the patio where we can use our outside voices?" and someone saying "Hey, can't you people quiet down or take it outside?" Same material result, completely different vibe.

So wait. Are you SPN types saying you wouldn't want to stay in Boxed Set now, anyway, no matter what?

I'm a SPN type who'll also stay in Boxed Set, assuming that the threads do end up diverging. (Which seems both likely and, perhaps, necessary now.) But I can definitely see why some folks wouldn't want to anymore.