No, ND, that's not it at all. I can only assume that you don't understand media fandom because the multiple definitions provided to you have not been adequate.

It's a culture -- the style and manner of a conversation, not just the topics of a conversation.

Is this the concept you're having trouble with, or is it something else in the definitions Ple or I provided?

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It's a culture -- the style and manner of a conversation, not just the topics of a conversation.

And that style and manner are what? I think my problem with the definition is that it's so broad. If I tell you the Bronzers style and manner of discussing BtVS is much different from our style and manner of discussing it, you still don't know anything about the style and manner in which they discuss the show. What are we talking about -- linking to/discussing vids and fan fic, or what?

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I don't get it either, and I do remember the conversations on this topic that happened before. What shows do we discuss in Boxed Set that do not generate vids and fanfic and in-depth discussion about character motivations etc? They may not last as long as SPN conversations currently are, but I'm pretty sure "media-fandomishness" is in regards to kind, not quantity.

Maybe I'm missing a salient point, but I can't believe that taking one show out of Boxed Set - any show - would change the essential nature of the thread. It's a place for talking at length about SciFi/Fantasy tv shows. Boxed Set not being a dedicated thread, the idea that a show that's been around for 2 seasons has become the flagship of the thread, without which it will lose its direction and flounder, bothers me.

A high volume of posts on a show that isn't even currently airing new episodes really seems to warrant its own thread. Are SPN watchers really getting something from being in Boxed Set that they wouldn't get in a dedicated thread?

Or maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding the objection.

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The issue is that the definitions are broad and vague. The use terms like a particular group and then do not define this group.

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a show that's been around for 2 seasons has become the flagship of the thread, without which it will lose its direction and flounder, bothers me.

Not what was said, or what was meant.

It was about changing the flavor, the tenor, the use of Boxed Set. Which a majority of people seem to want, so perhaps it's time to let it go, or move it elsewhere, bow to the majority.

use terms like a particular group and then do not define this group.

It's been defined. Perhaps not to the satisfaction of people who don't participate. Again, an evolving board culture thing, and it appears to be a facet that's no longer valued nor wanted. Time to let it go, here, and find it or take it elsewhere.

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What are we talking about -- linking to/discussing vids and fan fic, or what?

I never felt it was appropriate to link to fic and/or vids in Boxed Set, since we've got Fanfiction *and* BuffistaFic.

(If it is, I'm more than willing to get media-fannish all over the place, on many more shows than SPN. If that's what we're looking for...)

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I never felt it was appropriate to link to fic and/or vids in Boxed Set, since we've got Fanfiction *and* BuffistaFic.

How does either of those encompass vids? I understand not linking to fic, but vids seem like fair game to me. I like vids.

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It was about changing the flavor, the tenor, the use of Boxed Set.

Except that media-fannishness has never been the sole flavor or tenor of Boxed Set, which is what some people seem to be insisting. Boxed Set was thrown together from three threads, two of which that were media-fannish, and one that wasn't. It's been a mixed bag from the start.

That said, the complaint isn't that SPN is media-fannish. The complaint is that the sheer volume of posts is overwhelming all the other discussions, media-fannish or otherwise.

It's been defined. Perhaps not to the satisfaction of people who don't participate. Again, an evolving board culture thing, and it appears to be a facet that's no longer valued nor wanted.

I'll be over here with the rest of the mundanes.

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Specific markers of media fandom are what you're looking for? Well, I'm not sure how useful they are to this present conversation, but:

• Source-text lability. Most in media fandom have had more than one One True TV show, and will tend to be inclined to follow their friends into new TV shows just to maintain basic cultural competence. Sometimes this is serial monogamy; sometimes this is polyamory.

• Source-text diversification. As noted, I know quite a bit about Due South despite never having seen a single episode. Just to be able to converse in media fandom, that kind of knowledge base is more or less compulsory.

• Crazed interest in details of the source-text. This aspect is probably the furthest away from unique, when describing media fandom in distinction from other cultures, but it's a part of what's going on.

• Willingness to overthrow or fix the source-text. This shows up most concretely in fanfic, but is displayed in discussion as well: "But wouldn't it be cooler if...?" Most non mediafannish people I've talked to find this attitude thoroughly alien; what happened on the show is what happened on the show. For media fen, what happened on the show is raw material for all sorts of factual and counterfactual discussion.

• Collective squee. I secretly think that the reason Supernatural brings out the irritation in Boxed Set is because the collective and dogpiley nature of the show-love is something that non-media-fannish people in Boxed Set find weird and offputting. If you're in media fandom, and you see a collective squee going on, and you don't feel that way, you just say "This is not my beautiful cake" (tm shrift) and scroll on by. If you don't come from a social perspective where collective squeeing is normal, you think, "You people are all WEIRDOES."

• Shared history (esp. flamewars). This shared history is achieved by putting your time in, or by perusal of link clearinghouses like Metafandom or Fandom_Wank. This kind of shared history establishes social rules and expectations in re fanfic and vids (many); it provides perspectives on Active Problems in Fandom (e.g. misogyny in slash pairings; passivity and avoidance in racism discussions); and so forth.

• Lingo. Some of the lingo is specific to fandom of one source-text -- the portmanteaux for pairings -- but a lot of it is not -- I called it a "pairing" just now, you'll notice. Words like "gen" and "slash" and "h/c" and phrases like "OMGWTF" all come from media fandom. There is some crossover of lingo: see "HoYay," which is kind of a borderland term that popularized the concept of slash way beyond the abilities of the actual word "slash." (Similarly, it turns out that "squick" and "squee" come originally from online non-fannish fetish-writing culture, and got picked up from there into media fandom. And media fandom transmitted those words outward, such that they're reasonably comprehensible to most online cultures now.)

Mediafannish people have been Buffistas since we started calling ourselves the Buffistas -- we've always been here. That means a lot of little Buffista details are very similar to, or at least ballpark close to, media fannish details, since osmosis is bound to occur. But Buffista != media fandom, and vice versa. It's -- hey, Plei!! -- it's a Venn Diagram.

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That means a lot of little Buffista details are very similar to, or at least ballpark close to, media fannish details, since osmosis is bound to occur.

One might argue that we're our own fandom. (But that's not involved with anything that's going on right now.)

I like vids too, P-C! As stated above, my board memory is woefully short, so... I feel like not a lot of people post vid links. (Though I think they should post more!)

Your explanation helps me a lot, Nutty. And I think I agree that while there is a lot of that in Boxed Set, it's not the only flavor.

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