Because there's no reason to be wed to a single-show thread forever, if we start one up, right?

Right, and that's one of the reasons I proposed closing down Veronica Mars, at the time. I do think our past reluctance to close threads makes opening a thread more daunting than it has to be (at least to me).

(P.S. The VM thread isn't yet closed, Consuela. The vote decided to close it a month after the S3 DVDs are released.)

And from what has been posted here, we (of the SPN watchers who both often post in BS and also have posted in this discussion) would go to the single thread if there is a vote and a stand-alone thread is created out of that because we love the show and want to talk about it. But we're not looking to leave BS and saying that we'd really like to have a shiny new thread of our very own.

Although some SPN watchers are against a single show thread, it seems to me that some SPN watchers have expressed interest in a Supernatural thread -- for its own sake -- both here and in Boxed Set. Some of these people use Boxed Set, and some don't.

I'm having a hard time making up my mind, because I'm (personally) happy to discuss SPN in either venue. Speaking only for myself, the strong feelings of those SPN-Boxed Setters who don't want a Supernatural thread dampened my enthusiasm for it. Having a dedicated thread at the expense of upsetting a chunk of the people who love the show and post about it the most seems counter-productive. That's my number one reason for being reluctant to support this change; the other reason for my reluctance is that the media-fannish nature of the thread (which is elusive to me) seems important to maintain, to many of my friends. I don't get it, but even if that quality is elusive to me, I don't want to do something that will adversely affect it for other people.

On the other hand, I have reasons for wanting to support this change: I want people, like aurelia, who watch SPN but avoid Boxed Set, to be able to join in; and I want the people who use Boxed Set but feel overwhelmed by the SPN talk, to be able to continue enjoying the thread. Also, I am completely unconvinced by the assertion that the show can't sustain dedicated discussion. The numbers (even during the off-season) don't (to me) support that, at all. I realize everyone's going to have their own ideal volume for a single thread.

From my recollection only, the people who asked for and wanted those threads were the people that were going to be posting there. That is a huge difference to me.

(Cass, I'm quoting you to start this next bit only because your comment is the most recent, but I don't mean to single you out. The vibe I'm feeling isn't just coming from you. I've felt it a lot during this conversation, even from people are not involved with the show and/or the thread.)

I sort of feel uncomfortable that it somehow feels like the SPN Boxed Setters have the most say in this decision. Now admittedly, if Hypothetical Harry did not watch SPN and did not use Boxed Set, and yet initiated this discussion, I'd be peeved at his efforts to change how we talk about the show, and how the Boxed Setters use a thread he doesn't ever use. That's not what's happened here, though. There are people

• who do watch SPN and don't use Boxed Set (for whatever reason)

• who do use Boxed Set but don't watch SPN

• who watch SPN and use Boxed Set

From my point of view, there is the potential for all those people to feel personally invested in this discussion and the result. And other Buffistas who don't watch the show and don't used Boxed Set (i.e. people who are against thread sprawl, and people in favor of single show threads) may well feel personally invested, too.

I don't like that this conversation has come so close to saying some people have more of a say than others. One of the reasons we've traditionally offered a "No Preference" vote, is so that people could make the how-invested-am-I decision on their own. And one of the reasons we vote at all, is so Talky Meat doesn't always win the day.

---

---

I sort of feel uncomfortable that it somehow feels like the SPN Boxed Setters have the most say in this decision.

This.

Let's say, hypothetically, that there was a show, let's call it "Shmoopernatural", that was responsible for 90% of the posts in a thread. Even though SHMPN fell under the guidelines of the thread, I don't see why it's unreasonable for non-SHMPNers to feel like the SHMPNers are crowding out discussion of other shows and should maybe have their own thread. Would it be more reasonable for the non-SHMPNers to propose a new thread for all genre shows except for SHMPN? Then the SHMPNers could stay where they are and not feel like they've been kicked out of anywhere!

By the way, I just went over Cindy's stats, and the real percentage on SPN posts is over 50% of all posts in both of her samples (removing Heroes posts from the February numbers). That's still an awfully high ratio in my opinion.

---

And the W&Ps that were dvd/tape based rather than air-date based - well, I think that they cramped Sunday Night SciFi postings.

---

I have a couple questions I wanted to throw out there, even though I am about to run off to work and may not be able to respond to answers for a while.

First, is there anything else (outside of SPN) currently being discussed in Boxed Set that fits the original feel of Boxed Set, which seemed to me to be just as much about the fandomishness as it was about the scifi/fantasy aspects?

Second, am I the only one who thinks that if a SPN thread is created, it would probably morph into a slightly revised version of Boxed Set, where X-files, Dark Angel, Smallville, and even Buffy and Angel are likely to be discussed as well?

I'm not trying to make any kind of point here. I'm just trying to get a feel for how other people view Boxed Set, and what they would like it be.

---

Well, do you want a separate SF-F thread? Possibly SF-F + H.

---

Second, am I the only one who thinks that if a SPN thread is created, it would probably morph into a slightly revised version of Boxed Set, where X-files, Dark Angel, Smallville, and even Buffy and Angel are likely to be discussed as well?

I don't understand this. The 50% of posts in Boxed Set regarding SPN have been about SPN. I rarely see SPN discussion digress into a discussion about another show. And if it occasionally does do that, so what? The same thing has occasionally happened within all of our dedicated show threads.

---

No, Lee, you're not the only one. I think that sort of talk will follow the numbers, and happen wherever the posters are. Which is why, combined with

Would it be more reasonable for the non-SHMPNers to propose a new thread for all genre shows except for SHMPN? Then the SHMPNers could stay where they are and not feel like they've been kicked out of anywhere!

that I'm about ready to concede to the idea of a SPN thread as a seekrit media-fannish klubhouz, and cede BS to the ahem-ers. I mean, if the original concept of the thread has fallen so far off the board consciousness, then it makes more sense for those who practice and enjoy media fandom to have somewhere to do so, and not bother the majority of posters who don't. I think. Or something.

Obviously I wasn't cut out to be either a soldier or a hero, because my principles and ideals seem less important to me than the simple fact that I'm tired of arguing. So you know, go you guys, I guess.

---

Wait. So, as a non-ahemer who watches many of the shows discussed in BS, where would I go?

Everyone in BS would be ahead of me and it would be like Dr. Who and Torchwood all over the place.

---

I'm sorry, sumi. I was being overly dramatic, a failing of mine. Of course all the shows being discussed in Boxed Set would still be discussed there, as far as I know.

---