Part of cross-pollination, to me, is discussing shows *in relation to, and in comparison to or with, each other*.
How much of this is really happening though? Are people discussing SPN in comparison with SGA or BSG, because I really haven't noticed much of that outside of occasional comparisons with Buffy, which isn't one of the shows in the thread. However, I do skip most of the SPN talk so I may have totally missed it.
Do I see a tendency towards creating single show threads that ulitimately become smaller enclaves that are not as fruitful for inclusive discussion? yes.
The flip side to this question is what do we do when a show so overwhelms a bucket thread that the other shows get short shrift? SPN really has developed a momentum in the thread over the last few months. Last year there wasn't a lot of SPN talk out of season. This week there were almost 250 posts of W&P and analysis for a rerun. That's a lot of material to have to skim. By comparison, the season premiere of Eureka had only about half that many posts.
Amy, I hope you know I wasn't trying to pressure you into anything. I hope I didn't make you feel that way.
Not at all. I was off seeing OotP with the family.
I'm not sure what I feel like doing yet. I think the discussion is certainly valuable, although it does seem very familiar after the discussions about the TV bucket threads. There seem to be a few ways at looking at TV threads and discussion of same in here, and there's clearly not one way that's going to satisfy everyone, or even most people.
I also think I'm not familiar enough with board history and culture to really be in a position to judge this, because all I really want to do is to keep discussing SPN (with squeeing and flailing) somewhere and not intrude on others' space.
That said, I think the discussion should continue for a while and then I'll make a call about tabling it or not.
FWIW, I don't really want this question resolved in the sense that future decisions are predicated on some principle we extract here.
I think sometimes bucket threads are better and sometimes single show threads are better and we have to revisit this question when the pressure arises.
Boxed Set is kind of Fandomville, but that means different things to different people. I will note that Squeeage can be alienating and feel exclusive if you're on the outside of it. Whereas other types of discussion are more likely to have the cross-pollinating effect that people like about bucket threads.
OTOH, Squeeage is very reinforcing when you're in on it. It's the shared excitement and appreciation and sense of mutual culture that's really exciting about fandom.
Everybody typing "Giles!" after "I'd like to test that theory" is that kind of Squeeage.
I share Nutty's concern about losing the original thread feel, because I'm offa my lawn like that, and also for weird and somewhat gendered reasons such as have been discussed in depth over at Henry Jenkins' place. Which, I own, is a me issue.
How much of this is really happening though? Are people discussing SPN in comparison with SGA or BSG, because I really haven't noticed much of that outside of occasional comparisons with Buffy, which isn't one of the shows in the thread.
There's not a lot of that. There is digression into other genre TV work by the various actors (SPN segues into our Periodic Dark Angel Discussions). But it's not the same kind of genre show as BSG or SGA, being neither ensemble nor in space. There's some, I think, discussion about it as related to X-Files, which is a more logical leap to make (shared staffing, two main characters vs. the world, the truth is out there), though that may have been limited to discussion in the fic thread.
I know that folks feel that single show threads will create closed little enclaves but how is that different than the essentially closed enclave that is created by a bucket thread. For me the bucket aspect is an exclusionary aspect.
I'm halfway intrigued by the idea of a watch-n-post thread, though I'm not sure at all how it would work in practice.
I kind of love a W&P thread since west coasters never get to participate in W&P anyway, if it were all self-contained it would make my life easier.
Though I love it conceptually, I doubt I'd vote for one because I can't figure out how it would work in practice.
Just pondering here: I wonder if it would make sense to have a show-specific thread, and then, if the volume tails off (say the show tanks--perish the thought!), wrap it back into Boxed Set.
Because there's no reason to be wed to a single-show thread forever, if we start one up, right?
Say I wanted to talk about Veronica Mars now, now that the thread's been closed. I could do it somewhere, right? Probably Natter, I guess? But it wouldn't be offtopic for the board (because nothing's really off-topic anyway).
Does that make sense?
Really? More than Lost or Veronica Mars or Heroes?
From my recollection only, the people who asked for and wanted those threads were the people that were going to be posting there. That is a huge difference to me.
And from what has been posted here, we (of the SPN watchers who both often post in BS and also have posted in this discussion) would go to the single thread if there is a vote and a stand-alone thread is created out of that because we love the show and want to talk about it. But we're not looking to leave BS and saying that we'd really like to have a shiny new thread of our very own.
Because there's no reason to be wed to a single-show thread forever, if we start one up, right?
Right, and that's one of the reasons I proposed closing down Veronica Mars, at the time. I do think our past reluctance to close threads makes opening a thread more daunting than it has to be (at least to me).
(P.S. The VM thread isn't yet closed, Consuela. The vote decided to close it a month after the S3 DVDs are released.)
And from what has been posted here, we (of the SPN watchers who both often post in BS and also have posted in this discussion) would go to the single thread if there is a vote and a stand-alone thread is created out of that because we love the show and want to talk about it. But we're not looking to leave BS and saying that we'd really like to have a shiny new thread of our very own.
Although some SPN watchers are against a single show thread, it seems to me that some SPN watchers have expressed interest in a Supernatural thread -- for its own sake -- both here and in Boxed Set. Some of these people use Boxed Set, and some don't.
I'm having a hard time making up my mind, because I'm (personally) happy to discuss SPN in either venue. Speaking only for myself, the strong feelings of those SPN-Boxed Setters who don't want a Supernatural thread dampened my enthusiasm for it. Having a dedicated thread at the expense of upsetting a chunk of the people who love the show and post about it the most seems counter-productive. That's my number one reason for being reluctant to support this change; the other reason for my reluctance is that the media-fannish nature of the thread (which is elusive to me) seems important to maintain, to many of my friends. I don't get it, but even if that quality is elusive to me, I don't want to do something that will adversely affect it for other people.
On the other hand, I have reasons for wanting to support this change: I want people, like aurelia, who watch SPN but avoid Boxed Set, to be able to join in; and I want the people who use Boxed Set but feel overwhelmed by the SPN talk, to be able to continue enjoying the thread. Also, I am completely unconvinced by the assertion that the show can't sustain dedicated discussion. The numbers (even during the off-season) don't (to me) support that, at all. I realize everyone's going to have their own ideal volume for a single thread.
From my recollection only, the people who asked for and wanted those threads were the people that were going to be posting there. That is a huge difference to me.
(Cass, I'm quoting you to start this next bit only because your comment is the most recent, but I don't mean to single you out. The vibe I'm feeling isn't just coming from you. I've felt it a lot during this conversation, even from people are not involved with the show and/or the thread.)
I sort of feel uncomfortable that it somehow feels like the SPN Boxed Setters have the most say in this decision. Now admittedly, if Hypothetical Harry did not watch SPN and did not use Boxed Set, and yet initiated this discussion, I'd be peeved at his efforts to change how we talk about the show, and how the Boxed Setters use a thread he doesn't ever use. That's not what's happened here, though. There are people
- who do watch SPN and don't use Boxed Set (for whatever reason)
- who do use Boxed Set but don't watch SPN
- who watch SPN and use Boxed Set
From my point of view, there is the potential for all those people to feel personally invested in this discussion and the result. And other Buffistas who don't watch the show and don't used Boxed Set (i.e. people who are against thread sprawl, and people in favor of single show threads) may well feel personally invested, too.
I don't like that this conversation has come so close to saying some people have more of a say than others. One of the reasons we've traditionally offered a "No Preference" vote, is so that people could make the
how-invested-am-I
decision on their own. And one of the reasons we vote at all, is so Talky Meat doesn't always win the day.
