As the person who got this ball rolling inadvertantly, the above is the reason I was very reluctant to ask the question in the first place. That, and as someone else said, the idea of pushing people off to their own island, which was not my intention.

Frank, I am sorry if it seems like I am picking on you, because I do believe that wasn't your intention. Unfortunately, that is how it came across to me from your post, and I suspect from the conversation here that I am not alone in that.

As a result, the threshold problem that I am having with this particular proposal is that it seems to have been made based on guilt on the part of the proposer, rather than perceived need. I think that guilt is misplaced, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't want it to be the basis for a new thread.

Also, without Supernatural, I'm not sure that Boxed Set will retain its media fandom flavor, what with Stargate #1 being over and most of the other original founding shows being discussed in the Fanfic thread, if at all. But that is possibly just me mourning the loss of a generalist media fandom thread; or possibly wondering if a Supernatural thread would secretly do double-duty as the media fandom thread, the same way that back on WX Due South became the home of Stargate discussion, without that ever being officially noted in thread title or slug.

I always feel a little out of my league when the topic of the media fannishness of Boxed Set is raised, in part, because I never manage to retain a good working definition of 'media fannishness' (and if I recall correctly, that's because it's a term quite at least a few people define differently).

I also feel out of my league, because it's not part of the Boxed Set slug, and it's not part of the Boxed Set thread header. It feels a bit to me like media fannishness is a secret rule of thumb, only known to some, and yet when I read posts like yours Nutty, I wonder if we're supposed to treat it as something that's codified, even though it's not.

I don't mean to come across like I'm discounting your reason, Nutty. It's just one I never quite understand and so I'm never sure where the line lies, nevermind whether we should cross it.

Slug:

Discussions of sci-fi/fantasy shows we watch. Smallville, Due South, Farscape, Stargate, BSG, SPN, etc. May contain HoYay.

Header:

A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, Supernatural, or pretty much any other "genre" show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.

Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.

Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.

This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.

____________

DX said:

It does make it harder to follow the conversations on the other shows. There was a SPN DVD watch & post on 3/11, a night when there were also new episodes of both Dresden Files and BSG. There were 119 SPN posts on an episode that wasn't even airing, while the new Dresden had 20 posts and the new BSG had 15. That's a lot to wade through if you're not interested.

Even though I'm now head over heels in love with SPN, and like discussing it in Boxed Set, I agree with what DX says above. When I wasn't watching SPN, I felt the same way. I sometimes feel that the SPN enthusiasm not only makes it a little more difficult to follow the other conversations, it also makes it a little more difficult to sustain them.

I have no idea which way I'll vote, but to some extent, I still can't understand the reluctance of the other SPN fans to have a dedicated thread, and I'd like to, before I vote.

As a result, the threshold problem that I am having with this particular proposal is that it seems to have been made based on guilt on the part of the proposer, rather than perceived need. I think that guilt is misplaced, but even if I didn't, I wouldn't want it to be the basis for a new thread.

Lee (and Beverly, Plei, Jilli and anyone else who feels somewhat opposed to the current proposal), if AmyLiz had made the proposal out of pure SPN love, would you still be leaning against it? If so, could you please explain to me why? As I said, I'm good with SPN in Boxed Set, or in its own thread. I'd like a better understanding of how what's swaying people (other than the fact that a non-SPN watcher brought it up).

Lee (and Beverly, Plei, Jilli and anyone else who feels somewhat opposed to the current proposal), if AmyLiz had made the proposal out of pure SPN love, would you still be leaning against it?

Almost definitely. I don't think SPN is enough to sustain its own thread, I like the cross pollination with the other shows, and I think it fits well within Boxed Set.

Thanks, Lee. If I'm understanding correctly, you're saying you'd almost definitely still be leaning against a dedicated SPN thread -- right?

Yes-- I fixed. Need more coffee.

I'm conflicted.

I made the proposal because I felt bad, yes, and a lot of that came from knowing that personally, I don't use Boxed Set except to post about SPN, and that a lot of my posts consist of nothing but inarticulate drooling.

That said, I was spoiled by Veronica Mars, and the feeling of intimacy in there, of fans who could shorthand stuff to each other about the show or characters. There are times when I've watched an episode of SPN and wanted a bit of conversation but I've *not* posted, because I feel as if we take up enough space in there as it is.

I understand the toaster thing, and recruiting new fans, but I suppose because it doesn't quite work that way for me (with the exception of Dr. Who, a little bit, because I've caught it once or twice and am intrigued by the premise and everyone's enthusiasm), it didn't occur to me that others may appreciate the cross-pollination. Most of the other Boxed Set shows are simply not something I'm going to watch, so I skip right over that stuff. (Oh, and Eureka! I'm waiting to get the S1 DVDs.)

I'm considering withdrawing the proposal, because I don't think I considered the issues before proposing it (hello, impulse control issues), but I'd like the conversation to continue a little longer first.

It feels a bit to me like media fannishness is a secret rule of thumb, only known to some

Well, call it a subtext. It's been around for a long time -- the reason we came up with the named "Boxed Set" was because that was the era of cult (read: fannish) TV shows suddenly getting put out on DVD, as the vanguard for every TV show coming out on DVD, as happens now. It's also the reason we always knew there would be thread-drift (Due South to Stargate to the now quasi-formal "anything on the Sci-Fi Channel plus other stuff that wouldn't be out of place there"), since media fandom is a flighty thing, and if not polyamorous then definitely serially monogamous.

The media-fannish subtext is the reason why Spooks/MI-5 has historically been mentioned in Boxed Set, and then meticulously shooed out after a moment. Spooks isn't science fiction at all; but it is a media-fannish source text.

The joy of subtext is that it can intermingle with the text alla time, and those who aren't into it can just read along with the text and be happy. I think what non-Supernatural watchers are describing is their sensation that the subtext is overwhelming the text.

I like the thought of a dedicated SPN thread. It's going into its third season, it's not like folks haven't had a chance to get exposed to it. Even if it moves out of Boxed Set and it was the only show I was actively watching in Boxed Set, I would still subscribe to BS because I have picked up new shows to watch just by doing that (Dresden Files and Blood Ties, for example.) I don't think Boxed Set loses anything by SPN moving out. But, if folks want SPN to stay, it won't affect my attitude towards either Boxed Set or SPN.

As someone who hasn't been able to use boxed set in a long time I'm reallybin favor of getting a show out of there and into a separate thread. As I've said many times the bucket threads are a complete train wreck for me. The crosspollination idea doesn't work at all for me since I just end up going in and getting spoiled and then ignoring the thread.

I'd be more likely to rejoin Boxed Set if SPN were separate, I think. Not because I don't feel it belongs there but just because it's more and more unwieldy if you're not a watcher. The flip side of that is that I've just bought the SPN season 1 DVDs, and I think I'd also find it easier to dive in to the discussion in a dedicated thread.