SA wanted to change just the thread description of Premium to include FX shows so that they could be discussed there. Were they being discussed? Also, were people trying to discuss them and then being told, "Oh no! We mustn't!"

There wasn't really any discussion, There was some discussion about the possibility of talking about F/X shows, which no one objected to in thread. It was the question of changing the slug/description (I get those confused) to include F/X shows that has been controversial.

Cindy's proposal is a separate thing.

I am also confused, but that is my understanding of the situation to date.

I think the notion for a Drive thread, as it was implicitly for an Inside thread, was "let's see if it gets picked up for a full season then we'll give it its own thread."

I hate to adopt a tone of "you had to be there" but it strikes me that Sean's concerns about "faux democracy" and Cindy's concerns about consensus arise (at last in part) because they weren't active when we hammered out our procedures.

The reasons why things are the way they are is because there was a very long difficult discussion that ranged from principles to statistics to protocols and we all sort of hashed out our feelings on democracy and consensus and what was workable.

The reason we have a limit on how long we talk is because we discovered we never stop dithering about any issue. If we didn't put it within the Lightbulbs zone, for a limited discussion (with a further limit on when the issue could be raised again) our essential Buffista blabbiness kept us from doing anything.

The reason why we don't just use consensus is because quick consensus (early on) became our process to get around the stalemate of our blabbiness. At some level we disliked the notion of actually voting on stuff, but it quickly became apparent that voting is...well, fair.

Cindy may have the impression that people don't like bucket threads but if we put it to a vote I think she'll find out why we vote about things.

Anyway, I don't mean to discount Cindy or Sean's perspectives on these things but I would ask you both to trust the system a little.

I think the notion for a Drive thread, as it was implicitly for an Inside thread, was "let's see if it gets picked up for a full season then we'll give it its own thread."

Do you have evidence for that?

Also--had Heroes been picked up for a full season when it got its own (no matter how inevitable it seemed--I just want to file stuff correctly)?

God, I suck at staying inside the parentheses.

Also--had Heroes been picked up for a full season when it got its own (no matter how inevitable it seemed--I just want to file stuff correctly)?

Yep. It got picked up after three episodes.

There was some discussion about the possibility of talking about F/X shows, which no one objected to in thread. It was the question of changing the slug/description (I get those confused) to include F/X shows that has been controversial.

So it was the naming of things that became the controversy?

I get that people like things all official. But it also seems that for the most part people will discuss what the want where they want to. So if there were no changes, then the people who wanted to dicuss FX shows in the Premium thread would be able to do so, just without an official slug or description?

-t, I'm relieved to be not the only one confused.

Kat, you've got it right. SA's request spun off into everyone talking about the general TV situation. SA didn't want to make a proposal (at least not at that time) for the Premium expansion. This is a separate thing (that grew out of the spinning off).

ita, wasn't discussing Tim's shows one of the reasons for opening a Tim thread? It seems to me Allyson proposed it before Wonderfalls, but we already knew Wonderfalls was on the way.

I hate to adopt a tone of "you had to be there" but it strikes me that Sean's concerns about "faux democracy" and Cindy's concerns about consensus arise (at last in part) because they weren't active when we hammered out our procedures.

Oh my goodness, David. I was so here, I might have been 12 of the gang of 14.

-t, weren't you one of the people who did not want Premium expanded?

Obviously, Cindy. But the idea that not having watched Drive yet means you can't discuss Wonderfalls or the Inside isn't fair.

I don't think it'll come up, but it's still not fair.

Kat, I am one of the big screamers about "discuss what you want!" in any TV thread. Not only is a slippery slope to a general TV thread where the people who got there first decide how things should be done (oh, the evil), but it's only fair if conversations are all in blackfont that someone current on HBO shows but behind on Rescue Me doesn't get slammed with spoilers.

-t, weren't you one of the people who did not want Premium expanded?

Yeah. And, as Kat notes, it's the naming of things that is the problem for me. If SA and anyone like-minded had just chatted about The Riches or whatever in Premium for a while, I wouldn't have cared one bit, but repurposing the thread officially troubled me. Eta: after reading ita's post above, I think I was implicitly assuming that such "off-topic" discussions would be in white-font and if they were made on-topic they would be black-font.

I don't even know what I think about that anymore.

And I don't know what we're trying to hash out in here. But I keep reading, hoping I will get it enough to at least sort out my own opinion.

This is how we ended up with the confusion in box set though. It took me over a year to figure out that SG1 was discussed in there because there was no mention of it in the slug or anywhere else. I don't think it's much of a solution to say "Well if they had just done it and not wanted to put it in the slug then it would have been okay."