So we should drop it and do nothing 'til Fall?

I don't know. I don't think so myself, for this reason alone:

I hope we get past thinking there is only one way to make it work [snip] I'm seeing so little willingness to compromise -- even during the fling-things-at-the-wall stage -- that I'm already more than willing to pull the proposal.

I don't think you should pull the proposal. Except....

Actually, I think this is the main way our democracy is "faux" to the limited extend I think it is faux. Because we forced a time limit on discussion, it cuts short our ability to try and find consensus.

Yes, consensus is bullshit if only a few people are involved in the consensus, or if those not in consensus don't ever speak up, but we've become so allergic to "bullshit" consensus it's like we've stopped believing real consensus even exists, and don't even bother to try and find consensus any more.

Frankly, on this subject more than any other, I think we need to try and come to some sort of consensus, or it's doomed to forever being a contentious topic and having it come up over and over and over again.

Now we're on a clock, and any real consensus is unlikely at best.

(And tangentially, this is a problem I see in real life politics too. Hell, if we democratically elect a viscious dictator who orders up death squads for all the people who disagree with him, it doesn't make his election any less democratic)

But back to the point, I (as I often have in the past) really wish we weren't now limited to four days of discussion, especially since the whole purpose of this is experimental/fling stuff at the walls. I'd rather try to build some sort of consensus and/or compromise about this subject, instead of giving the largest bloc of voters the power of fiat.

And yes, I understand that it would be a long, painful process that may ultimately be unsuccessful, and I understand that it is for that reason we instituted the four day limit. And yes, I also understand that's probably asking for more heartache for little to no fruit, but I still think it's worth a shot (and an activity we should be encouraging in people, rather than discouraging).

Maybe instead of test threads for which single show/bucket threads we need, what we should propose is a symposium thread to try and find what/where the common grounds are, and what solutions really would work best, at least for a testing period. Then we save the actually test thread creation for the fall, when it will be more informative.

Or maybe not. I'm sure six or seven people will be along shortly to point out all the ways in which this post is supremely stupid.

I'm leaning towards the opinion that the timing isn't all that great for any aspect of this except the possibility of expanding Premium's scope to being the go-to place for antihero drama. There's a few Premium shows on now and I think FX runs its seasons during the spring and summer, but most of the network tv is winding down.

So, does "antihero drama" capture why SA thinks that FX shows belong in Premium?

So, does "antihero drama" capture why SA thinks that FX shows belong in Premium?

It does for me, Corwood.

Thanks, Sean. Y'know, I like your point that we should probably deliberate longer about what we want and why. I realize that I'm being mercurial here, but I'd be in favor of whatever procedural actions need to happen to allow more deliberation and greater consensus.

Dirt as anti-hero drama? Lucy Spiller isn't likable, but that's a stretch.

So, does "antihero drama" capture why SA thinks that FX shows belong in Premium?

Including something about short seasons (whatever it was that SA said) would help.

Is there a way to make a revamped Premium one of our trial threads?

Go with the "Premium Blend" idea, come up with a list of the "anti-hero" shows, and throw the currently Premium but not that type shows (Entourage, etc.) back into Natter or another bucket thread?

Dirt as anti-hero drama? Lucy Spiller isn't likable, but that's a stretch.

Is anyone clamoring to talk about Dirt? I don't remember anyone but you bringing it up, and don't know if you're using it as an example of an FX show that doesn't fit or because you want to talk about it or because someone else wants to talk about it and I just missed that reference.

but I'd be in favor of whatever procedural actions need to happen to allow more deliberation and greater consensus.

What would need to happen is that Cindy would need to withdraw her proposal, which would send discussion back to Bureau.

I'm not advocating that, just saying what would need to happen procedurally.

I'll glady withdraw it. I don't think there's going to be consensus, but I'll withdraw it and consense on anything I can, back out there. We've been doing this dance since 2003 or 2004. My feet are tired.