I was a little (and I think this is my issue) sad that this was proposed

I was too. Because I'm sick and tired of going over the same territory again and again.

Last night, I wanted to respond to whoever it was that said the anti-proliferation voices get more hard line with each new thread. I think that couldn't be more wrong. I think that with each new thread, it gets harder and harder to fight to contain the size of b.org. Music and Movies are a good example. I can't recall now which came first, but that was where we fought long and hard to keep b.org to being a ME-related board. We lost. So when the other thread was proposed, we just let it be.

We anti-proliferation types have demonstrated that we are willing to compromise. We are willing to consider each thread individually, even if we are against creating new threads generally. That said, I'm sure the pro-thread creation types see themselves as more than willing to accomodate us anal APVs.

I really don't want to see b.org become a general posting board, a la TT or WX or The Perfect World. I think if that's what you want, there are plenty of other options out there. If we add a Politics thread, we are well on the way to becoming a general board.

But you know what? I'm sick of fighting the same damn fight. Maybe I'm just too busy with other things these days.

Other things? Sure, like being a mom and a professor and a wife and writer takes up so much time. Sheesh, some people.

I'm sick and tired of going over the same territory again and again.

I think this discussion is worthwhile if only because we're doing it under our carefully hammered out procedures. This is only the second time (Minearverse was the first) that we're going to have an actual vote on creating a new thread. The last time a Politics thread was brought up, a decision was made using bullshit consensus. IMO, having this concentrated 4 day discussion has been very educational!

Burrell I suspect it will be defeated overwhelmingly; which closes the subject for six months.

This is why I'm going to vote "present". I'm mildly in favor of a politics thread. But some people are strongly against. On this board we consider intensity of feeling, not just numbers (or at least I do, and I suspect a lot of people do.) I'm not going to vote for something I'd like mildly in a it-would-be-kinda-nice sort of way, when a substantial number is STRONGLY opposed.

Typo, thank you. Not for the vote, but for your generosity and concern for the entire board.

What Typo said. I have interest in politics and would probably participate in the thread, but if the community is so very upset at the thought I will save the political conversations for the porch with the neighbors.

That's the kind of thing that I fear won't be able to be contained to the Politics thread; even if we put the words of the argument aside, at least some of those of us who participate may be genuinely bewildered by how others can defend what they're defending, may start to feel doubtful and shaky about not just that belief but that Buffista. Politics within the framework of other, wide-ranging discussions is fine; concentrated politics carries the risk of quietly poisoning us to one another.

I can see JZ's point, but I feel that this sort of "image tainting" happens with any interaction, no matter what the subject.

There are people on this board that I started out thinking were fine and now cannot abide, and politics never came into it. I don't think that "concentrated politics" has any more chance of poisoning my view of another Buffista than how they feel about...certain books. Or their opinion of a movie. Or how they talk about their day in Natter.

So, while I understand that politics can involve many peoples' multitudes of hot-button-issues, so do all the other thread topics. I don't see how it's inherently more damaging than any other thread.

I think I'm going to vote no. Not because of the "tainting the board" theory, because I tend to agree with Miracleman on that. But the argument that we started as and should remain a pop culture/personal board makes sense to me right now. We can't be all things to all posters without losing a good deal of our community identity, and the community is a big part of what makes this board great.

Well, again, I can only say what I said before. Politics is different than books or movies or How I spent my day. It's an intellectual exercise that has a tangible--sometimes freeing and sometimes horrific, but real, physical, concrete--effect on us. It runs hotter, cuts closer, weighs more.

And my experience from TT is that it is inherently more damaging. Even if it shouldn't be, it somehow always works out that it is. The Politics threads on TT were a bitter, savage swamp, and the TT folks were for the most part as thoughtful and courteous and patient as the Buffistas. But that place was damaged.

And at the same time you could go to other threads in TT and find people in more natterly threads who also had diametrically opposed viewpoints getting along and really enjoying each other's company, because the weight of the other subjects under discussion balanced things out and constantly forcibly reminded people of the things they valued about each other. (And, conversely, people who were seriously shell-shocked from nasty battles in Politics blowing up or disintegrating in other threads after some totally random remark.)

Maybe there isn't any reason why it should be more damaging, but I've never seen a board where it hasn't been.

I'd been mildly leaning toward a yes vote on the political thread when this discussion started, but a combo of the following factors have swayed me to say I will almost certainly vote against it:

• The fears JZ just eloquently voiced about spillover of people's reactions to one another. Let's face it, we've seen in this very discussion evidence of (mild) acrimonious tension and frustration between self-identified pro- and anti-thread proliferationists, a division that has no real world relevance outside of this board. Political divisions do have such relevance, and the potential for tension is a quantum leap greater.

• Technical issues, while seemingly minor, are still a consideration. I'd prefer to risk problems with the board's functioning (however slight that risk may be) only for those subjects that a large cross-section of the board feels the need to have in a dedicated environment.

• The troll issue. If the thread attracts even a single Mieskie, or prompts a single existing Buffista to follow in Caroma's footsteps, it won't be worth the cost in my opinion.

• While a number of people have indicated that they will probably read such a thread and post in it occasionally if it exists, the number of people who seem to strongly desire it to the point of being regular prolific posters seems small enough that the discussion can be taken to instant messaging or e-mail should Natter prove to be so inhospitable environment that the discussion is squashed there.