What DavidJacqueline said. And not just 'cause she said I'm approximately seventy jillion percent right (only approximately?)

The worst part about it was that this was a poster whom I truly loved, whose opinion on a host of subjects I valued deeply, and I knew that she hadn't said what she'd said with any intent to offend, that she in fact said it within a supportive and Go Team Feminists! framework. And still it took me several days of cooling down and backchanneling with another Buffista, and several weeks of conscious effort, before I could get totally past that. And yeah, I'm sensitive, but I don't think I'm abnormally so; it's just that a lot of political subjects cut terribly close to the bone for a lot of us, and often in unexpected ways.

We've all experienced the political crank relative, the person we love and respect for a host of reasons, with whom we can't discuss politics because it'll not only get us all het up, it'll also ultimately taint our view of that person. How can someone I love believe something so reactionary/selfish/racist/cruel/mealy-mouthed/delusive? How can I continue to respect this person, knowing that this is one of his/her core beliefs, one of the things that makes this person who s/he is?

That's the kind of thing that I fear won't be able to be contained to the Politics thread; even if we put the words of the argument aside, at least some of those of us who participate may be genuinely bewildered by how others can defend what they're defending, may start to feel doubtful and shaky about not just that belief but that Buffista. Politics within the framework of other, wide-ranging discussions is fine; concentrated politics carries the risk of quietly poisoning us to one another.

Not that I think political discussions are totally evil. IMO, politics as it's been discussed already is working fine. It's one topic among dozens; it comes up in the course of free-wheeling, wide-ranging discussions on threads broad-based enough that everyone feels socially compelled to be polite (IIRC, Nutty already pointed this out). When people get upset, they scroll past; when they get badly upset, they ask for clarification or apologies, and I can't remember a single time in a political discussion that a Buffista has refused either clarification or apology (except for the entire Caroma mess, which at any rate is long over and done with). It works right now; it's not broken; adding a dedicated Politics thread won't fix anything, and will open the door to our being badly broken in ways we can hardly imagine right now.

Plus, what everyone else said about thread proliferation, troll potential, and especially our pop culture roots and our future identity as a community.

I'm just so very opposed, in every possible way. Will vote against, won't post in, will avoid like the plague.

Sorry for being so insanely wordy. This has gone through a hell of a lot of drafts-in-my-brain over the last few days.

Very well said, JZ. And I agree.

Indeed. I agree.

Wholeheartedly agree with Jacqueline, and thank you for articulating my growing aprehension with much more clarity than I've been capable of, so far. Now I can just nod.

This is why I'm going to vote "present". I'm mildly in favor of a politics thread. But some people are strongly against. On this board we consider intensity of feeling, not just numbers (or at least I do, and I suspect a lot of people do.) I'm not going to vote for something I'd like mildly in a it-would-be-kinda-nice sort of way, when a substantial number is STRONGLY opposed.

I was a little (and I think this is my issue) sad that this was proposed

I was too. Because I'm sick and tired of going over the same territory again and again.

Last night, I wanted to respond to whoever it was that said the anti-proliferation voices get more hard line with each new thread. I think that couldn't be more wrong. I think that with each new thread, it gets harder and harder to fight to contain the size of b.org. Music and Movies are a good example. I can't recall now which came first, but that was where we fought long and hard to keep b.org to being a ME-related board. We lost. So when the other thread was proposed, we just let it be.

We anti-proliferation types have demonstrated that we are willing to compromise. We are willing to consider each thread individually, even if we are against creating new threads generally. That said, I'm sure the pro-thread creation types see themselves as more than willing to accomodate us anal APVs.

I really don't want to see b.org become a general posting board, a la TT or WX or The Perfect World. I think if that's what you want, there are plenty of other options out there. If we add a Politics thread, we are well on the way to becoming a general board.

But you know what? I'm sick of fighting the same damn fight. Maybe I'm just too busy with other things these days.

Other things? Sure, like being a mom and a professor and a wife and writer takes up so much time. Sheesh, some people.

I'm sick and tired of going over the same territory again and again.

I think this discussion is worthwhile if only because we're doing it under our carefully hammered out procedures. This is only the second time (Minearverse was the first) that we're going to have an actual vote on creating a new thread. The last time a Politics thread was brought up, a decision was made using bullshit consensus. IMO, having this concentrated 4 day discussion has been very educational!

Burrell I suspect it will be defeated overwhelmingly; which closes the subject for six months.