Aw, DX, thanks for taking one for the team. The whole counting thing sounds onerous. A lot like me trying to get my grades into the computer last night.

I'm officially volunteering now to count the next one.

Jon, that would be fine.

t starts writing a 15 question proposal for next ballot

Thanks DX.

It could be worse. I could be counting California recall ballots...

DX, the to line will be "votes@buffistas.org", anyway.

On Angel and the Previouslies:

I'd strongly prefer not to have the syndicated Angel eps discussion in the main Angel thread. I don't think it'll do either conversation justice, and it will lock out the UnAms. One of the most enjoyable things about the original Prev thread when Buffy was first syndicated was getting to hash out the eps with people we never got to talk with in NAFDA. So I'd prefer to keep the Previously thread if at all possible.

That said, I liked the earlier suggestion of moving the Angel Previously discussion into the Buffy thread if it were slightly revamped. That's something I'd like to hear more opinions on.

I see Kat's proposal is simple housekeeping. Trying to get rid of threads that are redundant or else low traffic AND without a vested subcommunity.I see Kat's proposal is simple housekeeping. Trying to get rid of threads that are redundant or else low traffic AND without a vested subcommunity.

This is more or less where I stand. But I'm not at all certain that we're all on the same page as to what constitutes a subcommunity, and whether or if it should get any consideration. To me, the various subcommunities are an important part of this board, even the one's I'm not a part of. They're not the only important thing, or the most, but they do have value.

I'm not saying that anything should be untouchable. I am asking that we try to get a little clearer on what we need to do and how urgently before we move on some of these. I only have a vested interest in one, really, and I know some of you are saying "shut up on this already, Brenda," but I think it's important.

There are lots of changes on this ballot that, if passed, can be put into effect with very little effect on anybody. So it's not a matter of "doing nothing" if thread that have advocates are spared the chopping block, even if only on a contingency basis. I'd be more comfortable if on the DS/SM/Farscape issue, we built some time into it - as in, give it a month or so, and see what happens. If, as we near the Oct. 1 D-day, it still seems like there are big problems to resolve, then go ahead with consolidation if it passed. Maybe Kristen and ita could be appointed the judge and jury on that determination, so we get away from both the advocacy and the extended discussion, but the change gets made only when it's clearer that it's needed. Hell, I'd even vote in favor in that scenario.

Is it accurate that as proposer I have the right to adapt it without committee changes?

And it's a good thing, Kat, because when the discussion goes to left field, I kind of trust you not to follow it, and I don't have to rush to each thread's defense.

And respectfully, it's all well and good to tell people not to panic, but when our (does she have an official title? webhost liason? official server goddess) panics, it's the kind of thing that tends to be contagious.

It's bad to panic, Dana. Thespis can smell fear. By the way, good point about the Fic thread. If it doesn't have fic, and is work friendly, it shouldn't be consolidated with the fic workshop threads. I will volunteer to gather pro/con points like that for each ballot point, once we have the final version. Wouldn't that be helpful?

I'd strongly prefer not to have the syndicated Angel eps discussion in the main Angel thread. I don't think it'll do either conversation justice, and it will lock out the UnAms. One of the most enjoyable things about the original Prev thread when Buffy was first syndicated was getting to hash out the eps with people we never got to talk with in NAFDA. So I'd prefer to keep the Previously thread if at all possible.

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

That said, I liked the earlier suggestion of moving the Angel Previously discussion into the Buffy thread if it were slightly revamped. That's something I'd like to hear more opinions on.

I think we're getting over legislate-y again. If we remove "Previously" entirely, the "where" we discuss syndicated Angel is up to us, and needn't be legislated, because we never get stompy about off-topic-topic in the show threads, as long as the off-topic-topic doesn't violate spoiler rules.

This kind of issue - "where to talk about safe Angel episodes" is something that doesn't need voting. Consensus was made for that kind of issue. There was plenty of talking about old Buffy episodes in the Buffy NAFDA thread, even when we had new Buffy episodes to discuss. We didn't legislate that.

By the way, good point about the Fic thread. If it doesn't have fic, and is work friendly, it shouldn't be consolidated with the fic workshop threads.

Nou - just to be extra-pointy, it's not going to be. Kat left the workshopping thread out of the consolidation.

Kat, Jon, Wolfram - aren't we getting way overboard with the NP in this case? Doesn't leaving an item blank on a ballot you cast, count as a 'no preference'? Do we need a 'no preference' option?

Wasn't 'no preference' for the case of a one-item ballot, where you wanted to make sure the issue got decided one way or another, but didn't want to enter an opinion? Seems like we're going to make things difficult for the counter. If DX gets a ballot with "yes" votes on each evenly numbered item, and no votes at all on each odd numbered item, don't the no votes count as no preference? I think we're making this harder than it has to be.

Am following this with interest, but the only thing I have to add is thanks to Monique and Kristen for their patience and their constructive suggestions.

We'll sort this out. With some grumpiness, undoubtedly, and some feeling of disatisfaction at having to tighten belts, but I think it's all do-able.

Kat, Jon, Wolfram - aren't we getting way overboard with the NP in this case? Doesn't leaving an item blank on a ballot you cast, count as a 'no preference'?

No, leaving an item blank does not count as a "no preference." Leaving it blank doesn't count towards the MVT; a vote of NP does count towards the MVT.

Wasn't 'no preference' for the case of a one-item ballot, where you wanted to make sure the issue got decided one way or another, but didn't want to enter an opinion?

Actually, the value of "no preference" increases in a multi-item ballot, since each item's votes are tallied separately to determine whether the MVT has been reached for that item.

I keep seeing talk about this locking out the UnAms. What is stopping any of us from discussing anything not spoilery-to-UnAms in the UnAm thread?

Here's the scenario: An old episode of Angel airs on TNT. An American wants to talk about it. S/he goes into the Angel thread to post comments. Unamericans don't get to join in. Unless all the old-Angel-ep talk initiates in UnAm, it will lock them out. And I doubt that Americans will think to do that.

I'm going to go out on a limb and argue that keeping the Previously thread could actually remove redundant posts. If we remove Previously, discussion of old Angels will happen in two places -- Angel and Unamericans. Keep it, and the discussion will be focused to that one thread.