The impression I got was that a fair number of people were offended that this had been discussed in Spoilers before it was brought before everyone.

It was discussed in Spoilers?

Okay, maybe I've been skimming a little too much lately because all I remember were a few people mentioning how frustrating it was to not be able to talk about the BCS in the regular Angel thread. The propsal came as a surprise to me and I genuinely don't remember anyone talking about it in Spoilers.

But then the last few weeks have been hell for me so my visits have been sporadic at best. I'll have to go back and find this conversation.

Because try as I might, I can't see the answer as that obvious, that cut-and-dried.

I've already outlined my thoughts on the grandfathering issue. I don't see it as cut and dried. But I do see precedent having equal weight as a written FAQ.

Okay, maybe I've been skimming a little too much lately because all I remember were a few people mentioning how frustrating it was to not be able to talk about the BCS in the regular Angel thread.

Well yeah, that was pretty much it. And the white-fonting of the anti-spoilers sparked some venting, too. Other than that, there were maybe three or four posts after Plei said "I'm gonna propose this in B'cy, anyone got wording suggestions?" and then Jim went ahead and proposed it. It wasn't anything lengthy or organized.

I swear that most of the conversation in Spoilers over the last few days has been trash-talking the cilantro-lovers. (Or haters; I can't remember which.)

There's no MO in Spoilers to bash the unspoiled.

Kat, I don't know why you think I'm singling you out.

Perhaps because you quoted Plei's response to what I had said as bearing repeating?

Cindy, I went over to Spoilers after the Buffy finale this season to because I was curious to see what the discussion leading up to the ep would be. I didn't expect that there would be major spoilers for the next season already, but hey, that was my doing and my choice. But in general, I prefer to stay totally unspoiled.

Where is this unified front? I am starting to find this focus troubling, because I think that although there was admittedly venting, venting that was coarser than what people who don't hang in spoilers might expect, this was no kabal, and that's what it's starting to sound like.

Fair enough. The Grenada thing was just me trying to think of a big/little analogy, and was probably a clumsy one. The point I was trying to make was that the fact that the issues had obviously been discussed at length in Spoilers was not a cause for offense, just that it left me feeling a little overwhelmed. I hope that part, at least, was clear.

I'm going ask a couple of things from everyone.

Right now there is a lot of emotional soreness here. So please, everybody, be aware that what would normally be taken as just a normal comment will be seen as a poke. Be extra careful in phrasng.

And in reverse, please be aware that I don't think anyone is out to get anyone else. So if you see something that you take as a poke please consider that it could be just poor wording. try and think of an interpetation that is not a poke - allowing for the poor and haty phrasing. And then respond as though it was phrased that way. Cause I bet it wasn't intended as a poke.

Perhaps because you quoted Plei's response to what I had said as bearing repeating?

The part of my post you interpreted as a personal attack was on another topic entirely. It was not directed at any one person, nor was it a response to any specific post. Okay?

Actually, the proposal took me by shock, too.

I went to bed, having asked for wording suggestions in Spoilers, and having felt out the waters in B'cay (you will note I used hypothetically a lot, and probably confused anyone who didn't know that there were casting changes, but I was trying to bring it up without spoiling people), and woke up to a proposal in place and seconds being made.

I think the attempts to squelch this discussion via the grandfather proposal are on a par with gerrymandering.

I find that really offensive. Please explain to me why citing the grandfather policy that we just ratified a couple of months ago is so out of line. Because I really don't get it. In what circumstances would it be appropriate? Any?

Addressing Brenda's point here. I disliked it because it looked like a parliamentary end-run on necessary discussion.

When we started making and enacting rules here we very consciously avoided to-the-letter prescriptions because we wanted common sense to have sway over thread-Lawyering.

But there are big implications to the definition of what's a spoiler, so inevitably we've gotten into a parse out every comma discussion.

I think the batch of summary posts in the last one hundred or so usefully articulate the different stances.

Personally I like the amended language (with the "only"). I do think that what we're discussing here is not hardcore spoilerdom vs. the pure of narrative, but rather the big chunk in the middle. It is my sense that most Buffistas do not want plot-spoilers discussed in NAFDA but are comfortable with between season cast changes because otherwise there is very little to talk about over the summer. The good thing is that we can take a vote and we don't have to depend on what my sense is about "most Buffistas."

I don't want the repurposed Spoiler Lite because I still won't go in there. It's too slippery, and I don't think that environment will support robust discussion.

I'd rather the voting got started already.

Also, I will note that Jim is going to be pissed. (In the American sense.)