I think we had spoilers, spoilers lite, and spoiled on Spike's status. But I could be talking out of my arse.

OK, refresh my memory - the fact that he got his soul? Was a spoiler after it was announced in the episode? And what new thread?

We knew he got his soul in Grave. But many of us figured out he was still a vampire with a soul. Many others heard that through spoiler channels. Jane E talked openly about it on the Succubus Club (I think) radio interview following the finale. Others figured he was human with a soul. That was the thread you could find out/discuss/speculate on it in, if you didn't want to be spoiled on other things.

PMM, isn't that what Spoilage Lite was for S7? It would be at WX, wouldn't it, because we didn't get here until Sept 17 or 19?

Amych's post was in regular spoilers, and I think it might have been here, but that might be because I read it after we got here.

Spoilage Lite had a SEPARATE THREAD called "Spoiled on Spike's Status", because knowing he was a vamp with a chip and a soul was considered too heavy a spoiler for Lite (there was screaming when it was mentioned, so I made a new thread, even though, as Amych said in her rant, it was a safe assumption as chip and vamp were his default states).

That's right - at WXing - Spoilage lite was a folder with BtVS spoilage lite, Angel spoilage lite and Spoiled on Spike's Status. (I think)

And as to why this particular issue had been hashed out there previously to it being brought before the board in general, well, the issue is spoilers, isn't it? There was no other thread where it could be discussed openly without inadvertantly spoiling people. So I'm not sure what the people who are offended that discussion took place there think should have been done instead.)

I don't think it's that anyone's offended that the discussion went on - it's just that it makes it feel like we're scrambling to catch up and marshall our arguments in this discussion while the on the other side there's been time for the issue to gather steam. And not having been part of the build-up, being hit with a more-or-less unified front makes it easy to feel like Grenada in 1982.

It's not a question of fairness, or of what should be done instead. It's just the nature of the beast. It is what it is. But perhaps it offers some insight into why people on the 'phobes side of this issue are feeling a little defensive.

Ah, gotcha. I forgot about that whole incident.

Jessica, I never mentioned that I was offended that the discussion went on. I think the venting over the past 4 days or so, where people were called insane, were the things that probably upset people.

Me, not so upset. Because I'd have to think of myself as on a side of this.

What upset me most was the attempt by people who were against the proposal to shut down this entire conversation.

Talking now of how things appeared, not how they were:

It appeared as if they were willing to argue the proposal on its own merits until they realized they felt like they didn't have support. Then they brought up grandfathering and demanded a shutdown of the conversation. It came across as hostile as being discussed in abstentia might seem. I sincerely doubt either thing was intended that way, but it is how it seemed.

brenda - This isn't me picking. This is me being blunt, because when I try to walk on eggshells, I usually end up doing whatever it is I'm trying to avoid.

I'm curious as to your use of us - placing yourself with the unspoiled, because I know you've been reading and posting in spoilers. You asked me why I thought the NB career thing was a big deal, and I explained that I didn't, that it was just frustrating to be unable to discuss something openly that didn't happen on any of the shows. I know you were at least there then, if not now.

There was venting. I have put myself in the other place, and can imagine how I'd feel if I were spoiler-free. I wouldn't be having a party after reading some of the venting either. I can see and accept that it must have been hurtful to people who are reading it in retrospect. I do think it wasn't meant to be hurtful, but rather to blow off steam, so that there wouldn't be a kerfluffle. The best laid plans of mice and monkeys...

Anyhow, this isn't about that. That's all understandable. This is about the 'unified front' thing. Generally, someone would get tired of being unable to discuss Angel news openly, vent a little. Some of us would say, "The promos will air in August, it'll be all right." Others would say it was ridiculous or frustrating to wait. Some would think it was unfair. Some would say it was much ado about nothing. Someone would ponder making a request to go back to the way things were. We'd lose steam and fight about Spike in season 6 BtVS or apparently (I'm behind) cilantro.

Where is this unified front? I am starting to find this focus troubling, because I think that although there was admittedly venting, venting that was coarser than what people who don't hang in spoilers might expect, this was no kabal, and that's what it's starting to sound like. I don't think giving that impression is doing thing one towards helping us work towards any sort of resolution to our hurt and frustration.

being hit with a more-or-less unified front makes it easy to feel like Grenada in 1982.

Hmmm, unified front? Besides questioning the value of bringing in military metaphors (which, like political metaphors, tend to up the aggro rhetoric level) I don't see a unified front. A few spoiler hos have weighed in, but plenty of frustration has been voiced by folks who have never been in Spoilers at all and consequently can't really be considered part of some covert military-style campaign to Dismantle the Spoiler Policy. Those who call themselves spoiler hos and those who see themselves spoiler-phobes who are currently spoiled are being lumped together.

Jessica, I never mentioned that I was offended that the discussion went on.

Kat, I don't know why you think I'm singling you out. The word I used was "people." I read over 500 posts this morning. I honestly have no idea who posted what. The impression I got was that a fair number of people were offended that this had been discussed in Spoilers before it was brought before everyone.